Will Tulsi boycott the coming debate?

Tulsi has sent out a message to supporters and interested parties to solicit input on whether or not she should boycott the coming debate to draw attention to the ways the DNC is subverting democracy (my words).

Wouldn't it make more sense for her to participate in the debate and make the same point?

Is she using this to avoid being put in a position to directly call to task Warren and Biden on their warmongering?

Will she reconsider her defense of Ellen?

You can also check the responses to this unexpected and rather shocking news on Way of the Bern.

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Wally's picture

Here it is . . .

https://np.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheAloha/comments/dfxwkv/tulsi_to_boycott_o...

I want to thank you all very much for your support. I need to share something with you. It is very important: I am giving serious consideration to boycotting the next debate and I want to tell you why:

There are so many of you who I've met in Iowa and New Hampshire who have expressed to me how frustrated you are that the DNC and corporate media are essentially trying to usurp your role as voters in choosing who our Democratic nominee will be.

I share your concerns, and I’m sure that all our supporters throughout the country do as well.

The 2016 Democratic Primary election was rigged by the DNC and their partners in the corporate media against Bernie Sanders.

In this 2020 election, the DNC and corporate media are rigging the election again, but this time against the American people in the early voting states of Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, and Nevada.

They are attempting to replace the roles of voters in the early states, using polling and other arbitrary methods which are not transparent or democratic, and holding so-called debates which are not debates at all but rather commercialized reality television meant to entertain, not inform or enlighten

In short, the DNC and corporate media are trying to hijack the entire election process.

In order to bring attention to this serious threat to our democracy, and ensure your voice is heard, I am giving serious consideration to boycotting the next debate on October 15th. I will announce my decision within the next few days.

With my deepest, and warmest aloha, thank you all again for your support.

– Tulsi

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14 users have voted.

Wouldn't it make more sense for her to participate in the debate and make the same point?

If she boycotts the debate then I'm done with her.

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13 users have voted.
Wally's picture

@gjohnsit

She's polling folks about whether she should or shouldn't, so I went to the website and "voted" yes she should and of course got directed to the shareblue funding page.

I'm still hoping she goes on the debate stage, gives 'em hell, rips to shreds Biden and Warren, and then if she walks off, holy shit! I might even send her a few bucks even though I'm pissed about her defending Ellen making nicey with Dubya Bush.

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4 users have voted.
Alligator Ed's picture

@Wally Shoot a few truth bombs at EW and then in mid-sentence walk off the stage. Flipping the bird would be a nice touch but be a loser--but well...

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12 users have voted.

@Wally If it was a publicity stunt, it worked. Just don't make this a habit, Tulsi.

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5 users have voted.

@Wally Why shouldn't she rip Sanders for Russigate and his half-assed foreign policy shit.

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Wally's picture

@davidgmillsatty @davidgmillsatty

You made a claim about Bernie sending you emails soliciting funding the week or so after his health problem. I called you out on it. But you refuse to respond. Why should I respond to you?

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4 users have voted.

@Wally

I get two or three emails a day from Sanders. They go in the trash, but looking through my trash bin I got 2 on the 10th and 3 on the ninth. Both times I got a request to send a $2.70 contribution. Did you not get these?

Have not gone back any further. Maybe I am on some type of preferred list since I gave him money in 2016. Don't know. But if you are not getting emails every day, maybe that is your problem.

Maybe you should be called out for the insulting comment. Plus I have been out of town all but 4 days since September 23. Could not respond very well due to internet connectivity problems that happens when one travels.

Today is my first full day home since October 1.

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Wally's picture

@davidgmillsatty @davidgmillsatty
You criticized Bernie and his campaign for sending you emails that did not address his health condition, essentially suggesting that he was grifting supporters for money, during his stay in the hospital after his hospitalization beginning October 2nd, well before the 9th.

I was and remain a proud Bernie supporter and I can assure you I'm on his list. The last fundraising email I recieved before his hospitalization was on October (edit/typo) September 30th, the last day of the quarterly reporting period. And yea, I got another one on the 9th just like you (and before that too but after he was out of the hospital) and his medical situation was already made very clear to everyone by that time.

If you have been out of town without access to your emails, perhaps you should have thought first before throwing out an undocumentable criticism?

Also do you not know how to block unwanted emails?

And if you feel insulted by the facts, find shelter in a safe space.

Finally, are you supporting any candidate, Dem or otherwise, or are you just catapulting potshots at all candidates (which is fine when you at least attempt to back them up rather than just engaging in smears)?

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@Wally He fucking never did address his health condition in any emails I got. I have yet to get one that says he had a heart attack or a myocardial infarction.

What do you know about myocardial infarctions? Do you know anything about cardiac enzymes? Those tests are done within minutes to hours after someone goes to an ER with chest pain. The campaign knew on day one what the cardiac enzymes showed. Probably within minutes or hours of his having gone to the first facility. It took several days for the campaign to mention it.

It pisses me off. Al Ed did an OP on it and did not know the real reason for the stent or chest pain after the stent was put in. So yeah, his campaign buried it. If you want to cover for Sanders, that is your prerogative.

As for who I will vote for in November 2020, that depends on what state I am living in then. If I am still in Tennessee where I have lived since 1997, it does not matter who the fuck I vote for. The Republican will win in a landslide. I presume that I will still be in Tennessee. But there is a chance my wife and I will move before the election and if we do move it will most likely be out of state. And depending on what state that is, then if my vote matters, we will see who the candidates are.

But for the primaries, I really don't know who I will support. Maybe it will be Sanders again but this time, my support will not be enthusiastic like last time.

But damn it, a myocardial infarction is serious shit. And Sanders' hard core supporters are just whistling through the graveyard about it. And in the primaries, Sanders can not pick a VP so there is no telling who would be taking his place if he dies.

I handled a number of heart attack cases during my legal career. And every one, with no exception, had some mental issues that came with it due to insufficient oxygen to the brain. It was a very common thing.

But enjoy your bliss.

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@davidgmillsatty

I went back and looked at all of my trashed emails going back to 9/30 which asked for a contribution and it was just about contributing, nothing else.

The others:

10-1 Iowa Ad -- No contribution requested
10-2 No email that I could find
10-3 Thinking for Well Wishes -- Request to Contribute
10-4 Sign up for a Shift -- Request to Contribute
10-5 Survey -- No contribution requested
10-6 Free Sticker -- No contribution requested
10-7 Back Home in Burlington resting for the debate. Wants $2.70 because he has fallen behind in contributions
10-8 2020 Donor wall -- all about people who have donated. Wants $2.70.
10-9 and 10-10 were already mentioned asking me for $2.70

No mention of heart attack ONCE.

You decide for yourself whether he was hitting me up for a contribution without letting me have any indication of his true medical condition.

But I suggest that next time you decide to call me out, think twice about it.

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2 users have voted.
Wally's picture

@davidgmillsatty

You had noted: "His emails strike me as either a lie by omission or a trivialization of what has happened unless I missed something."

But he was out of the hospital on 10/4 at which time it was widely reported that he had a heart attack. Do you get all your news about the campaign from fundraising emails?

Also note:
10-1 Iowa Ad -- No contribution requested
10-2 No email that I could find
10-5 Survey -- No contribution requested
10-6 Free Sticker -- No contribution requested

I won't ask you for copies of the emails you claim got on the 3rd and 4th because then we can probably go on and on about whether and how a thank you and a survey did or didn't directly include an appeal for money. And whether this was pretty much something automatic that came from the campaign, rather than "from Bernie" who was recuperating those days. And besides, nobody aside from you and I care about this timeline. And like I've also elsewhere noted, Tulsi's survey to find out if she should or shouldn't debate kicked into a shareblue donation appeal.

But that doesn't really matter to me that much. What matters is that you expected Bernie to rush right to the press and supporters to inform them of what happened while he was still lying in a hospital bed and his entire family was distraught and confused. Suggesting as you did that he was being dishonest and trivializing matters on purpose, I mean, really?

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@Wally

Or pretend to be, (since I really don't think you are that dumb), about heart attacks. His campaign could have said something to his supporters or prospective supporters about him having a heart attack on day one. It didn't. And in all those emails, I never found a word about his heart attack even the one which talked about his good medical care and a statement that everyone should have the kind of care he got.

Should his supporters be expected to find this out somewhere else? Is that what you expect?

Frankly, since I know something about heart attacks, I am curious to know just how bad it was and the prognosis. Of course I know I will never get to find out. We never found out anything about HRC's medical issues either.

Al Ed and Dr. Carpenter both talked about the perception a stent would have. And that was before there was a confirmed heart attack.

There are a lot of things for people to consider. What if he gets the nomination and has another heart attack, fatal or very disabling, before November? What if he gets elected and has one shortly thereafter? Etc. These are very real perception problems. Bernie is 78 and will be 79 when he takes office. Bernie was not looking like the 2016 Bernie before his heart attack. I am 69 and have seen a lot of death in older people in the past few years. Two in the last month, aged 68 and 69. I am not hopeful. That is just my perspective though.

I guess we will see how he does as the primaries ratchet up.

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@davidgmillsatty

See this article from a writer in Vermont:

https://vtdigger.org/2019/10/11/margolis-in-matters-of-the-heart-attack-...

That’s a heart attack. Having the heart attack was nothing Sanders or anyone on his campaign could control. To that extent, his political troubles are not his responsibility.

But somebody could control:

Not using the term “heart attack” until he left the hospital;

Stating four days later that he would “change the nature of the campaign a bit” slowing its pace until he was sure he had “the strength to do what I have to do”;

Executing a 180-degree “whoops” the next day, explaining that he “misspoke (and) said a word I should not have said, and media drives me a little bit nuts to make a big deal about it.”

Those were decisions, political decisions which have made October worse for Sanders than did the heart attack itself. The first decision – being perhaps less than candid about the candidate’s health – was the campaign's.

The other two were mistakes by the candidate himself, as though he were a rookie politician who didn’t know that it’s never smart to flip-flop from one day to the next.

I would take issue that these gaffs were worse than the heart attack itself, but they were gaffs.

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@davidgmillsatty

https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/exclusive-bernie-sanders-spea...

(Sorry for posting the link but I am getting a warning that this video is not supported)

Look at the bags under his eyes. And then he says the minor medical doctor told him he was having a "heart event." And then he is asked if she told him he was having a "heart attack" and he admitted yes. So he could not even still admit that he had a heart attack until forced to do so.

In minor medical facilities they usually don't have the ability to do cardiac enzyme tests and often don't even have EKG's. So how the minor medical doctor made this diagnosis so fast is commendable unless it was really obvious. In which case it might have not been as minor a heart attack we have been told.

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show up and make the same point on stage in front of a national audience of however many millions. As a 2-3% candidate consistently being ignored by the MSM, news of her boycott would likely be boycotted by the media.

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19 users have voted.
Bisbonian's picture

@wokkamile

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8 users have voted.

"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

Alligator Ed's picture

@wokkamile You believe the polls. Well, lemme tell ya, I got some fine bottom land near Metaire to sell ya. Believe it! I ain't no low down reptile--Hell, I'm an honorable one.

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3 users have voted.

boycott. The most important element is that she unequivocally stated this:

The 2016 Democratic Primary election was rigged by the DNC and their partners in the corporate media against Bernie Sanders.

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24 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

orlbucfan's picture

@UntimelyRippd for the job. She is also part of some sort of Fundie Hindu branch, and a Modi supporter. Later. Rec'd!!

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2 users have voted.

" Our solutions to the climate crisis must match the demands of physics."
c/o truthout

mimi's picture

@orlbucfan @orlbucfan
may have to be considered, when running for President? So what kind of religion must a candidate have in your opinion? Christians, Moslems, Jewish, Hindu, Woodoo or some fanatic sect follower? Is the US a theocracy next?

Thank God she doesn't have the experience to do the job. Because too many of the so-called experienced ones have done or are doing a terrible, terrible job.

For sure Tulsi should boycott the debates, those debates are pure clownish kabuki theater and not relevant for the people. How she does it? May be show up, talk truth to power and leave the stage with a bang.

She should go independent and forget the Democratic Party and the DNC. These are not people one should work with. Basta.

Period.

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13 users have voted.
Alligator Ed's picture

@mimi *The FEC, if you remember that 3 letter nullity, makes me say this:

For sure Tulsi should boycott the debates, those debates are pure clownish kabuki theater and not relevant for the people. How she does it? May be show up, talk truth to power and leave the stage with a bang.

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6 users have voted.

@UntimelyRippd pretty ballsy for any "Dem" candidate to say, good for her there.

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8 users have voted.

She needs to show up. Full stop.

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snoopydawg's picture

People all over the country worked their tushes off to get her qualified to the first couple of debates and were upset that she wasn't in the last one because of the asinine rules of the DNC. To turn around and say she is going to boycott it is just dumb!

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16 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

Azazello's picture

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Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@Azazello @Azazello

She's been the star of both debates she's been in and, whether she likes the gameshow format or not, does very well in it.

The debates have been very good to Tulsi. Why protest what's working for you?

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10 users have voted.

Peace Sells

ovals49's picture

just before her 1-1/2 minutes are up. Then take her leave. Otherwise, she will simply be mocked or ignored for dropping out, without informing the largest audience she is like to have just why she sees the current Democratic Party as such a sham.

Whoever is elected in 2020 will continue the sh*t show of our failing capitalistic economy and self serving “elected” representatives. None of the 2020 presidential hopefuls from either party is about rocking the floundering ship of state. Perhaps the country will be ready for some real and significant change by 2024. Or not.

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16 users have voted.

“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” Albert Einstein

“And an uncomfortable truth is always superior to a comfortable fantasy.” Caitlin Johnstone

Wally's picture

@ovals49

We have the critical mass for the chance of our lifetimes in 2020.

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2 users have voted.
Alligator Ed's picture

@Wally It's too late, much too late
the damage is done
when yesterday comes once again for the young
like lightning
between your hand and your gun

You wanted blood, now ain't that funny

If you open your mind, you might hear what she has to say

It's Too Late
The Damage is Done.

Beginning of the End (for DNC)

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Wally's picture

@Alligator Ed

gjohnsit discusses Bernie's new assault on corporate power and it's hold over the DNC

I suggest "we" try to win what's at least big maybe winnable for a change. Even if the the chances aren't great, they're better than trying to get results by setting up yet another "third party" for 2020 or in time for 2024.

But if that's your preferred plan of attack:

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1 user has voted.

@ovals49
She should pick the most dramatic point in the debate, probably after she's been ignored and rolled over by the moderators. The only problems would be if she's taking so many attacks from Biden and Haarris that leaving might look bad. Also, it would be difficult for Bernie. Me as Bernie would join her, but that's not the strategy Bernie wants to use.

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4 users have voted.

A PROUD Hillary hater since 1993

@doh1304 I doubt many will bother to attack her. She is not seen as enough of a threat to risk an exchange that backfires.

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snoopydawg's picture

@ovals49

If Tulsi wants to point out that not only the primary is being rigged, but the debate format is pitiful then she needs to do from the podium. Not showing up does no good and maybe the media doesn't even cover her boycott.

And since she has gone vocal on the 2016 primary I will be disappointed if she does show up but keeps quiet about it.

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8 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

Alligator Ed's picture

@snoopydawg Tulsi knows the enemy has exposed positions. She mounted what is so far a brief frontal attack. Silence. But the more she probes vocally, the enemy will be forced to start shooting back. But their ammunition is faulty.

Sun Tsu and Tulsi too.

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snoopydawg's picture

@Alligator Ed

primary by buying the super delegates that voted for her even though Bernie won the state. See my comment below how horrible this was. Plus she laundered money through her organization. But today two Trump toadies got arrested for election fraud. But Herheinous is still walking free!

The guys who were arrested were not trying to get Ukraine to investigate ByeDone. This is just more RH crap. If this was actually a problem then AIPAC would be in the crossfire. Or others that broke election laws would be arrested long ago. But once again people are falling for it.

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5 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

fakenews's picture

An empty podium spot will say much more that a refusal to participate ( in which the boycott will be ignored by the media). This may be the end of Tulsi and the Democrat party here...

Peace
FN

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3 users have voted.

"Democracy is technique and the ability of power not to be understood as oppressor. Capitalism is the boss and democracy is its spokesperson." Peace - FN

mimi's picture

@fakenews

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5 users have voted.

By not showing up to explain herself gives her detractors a free pass to just make up any shit they choose. And they will definitely make up a lot of shit. And none of them will even mention the DNC rigging, cheating, and lying.

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10 users have voted.
Not Henry Kissinger's picture

Kinda goes against the whole feng shui of Tulsi's campaign, no?

Just floating that question to her supporters is beyond stupid, since a big reason a lot of them gave in the first place was because she had the courage to get up there to speak for them.

Publicly getting cold feet a week before the debate will not be good for donations going forward.

I'm just wondering what she's really afraid of. And why?

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12 users have voted.

Peace Sells

Alligator Ed's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger Sun Tsu all the way. A fighting retreat (advancing toward the rear), stuns the enemy which is always unprepared--because, remember they're Dimocrats.

If she doesn't appear for the debate, there won't be an empty lectern. The DNC will see to that--they probably won't even mention Tulsi's absence...just like a non-person as decreed by the Central Kommittee.

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5 users have voted.
Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@Alligator Ed

Her campaign is done.

And there's no Chinese aphorism ever written that will bring it back.

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13 users have voted.

Peace Sells

Alligator Ed's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger @Not Henry Kissinger The wording was perhaps opaque. Tulsi should show up at the debate, lob truth bombs at EW, then call out the DNC--and then walk off the stage in mid-debate. This will be a declaration of War against the DNC delivered in person.

P.S. I love it when she wears white.

Walking off the floor mid-debate will make her a Whiter Shade of Pale

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5 users have voted.
mimi's picture

@Alligator Ed

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2 users have voted.

@Alligator Ed It would not hurt to lob a few at Bernie. He's not totally innocent here even though he was the victim of the last DNC fraud. But what did he fucking do about it? Endorsed her, promoted Russiagate shit, completely ducked the Seth Rich matter and let Assange slowly twist in the wind, has had a crappy foreign policy (other than he doesn't vote for war -- how nice?) and now has a bad ticker.

What is he going to do? Get stem cells? Are there stem cells for foreign policy lapses?

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Pluto's Republic's picture

...about how the election could play out, and discovered for the first time something that has been true for centuries: According to the charters of both Parties, Party Leaders can, at any time, make the final decision about who will be the Party's candidate. And they have done so in the past. Primary voting takes place simply to measure "Member preferences." The Primary votes are not binding.

Since the 1960's, the Parties have been hesitant to muscle their will upon Party Members, so they use several artificial devices — like the Super Delegates or debate timing and arbitrary debate rules — along with the media's suppression or promotion of certain candidate's campaigns and the delivery of skewed narratives and targeted propaganda. In the end, either the Party Leaders' candidate wins a Primary majority or no candidate does, at which point the Super Delegates take over.

The way that Party Leaders, legally and historically select their Presidential candidate, and the true value of pseudo-voting in the Primaries is apparently new information for Tulsi. She will adapt to it and make a reasonable decision.

What interests me is whether or not a large majority of Americans have significant delusions about the Primary process. Do they strongly believe their Primary votes are legally binding? If so, there's a power opportunity in this that can be harnessed to transform the current political paradigm. If people knew they were being tricked into believing they had something to do with picking the President, would they still 'show-vote' in the Primaries, thus, lending them legitimacy?

In my view, the Party is pretty transparent in their rigging and manipulation and biases. They don't advertise them, but they don't try very hard to hide them, either. And they are utterly transparent in their pay-to-play arrangements with their Corporate Overlords. Democratic Leaders have prior commitments to vested interests that are written in stone, which is why Medicare 4 All will never bloom under the Democratic Party label. They've also made a firm 'arrangement' with the Intelligence Community, where their personal sins and weaknesses and indiscretions have been analyzed. They are pretty transparent about that arrangement, too.

You never have to guess what the Democrats are thinking. And you can always rest assured that they are not representing the American People in Washington DC.

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16 users have voted.

The purpose of a writer is to keep civilization from destroying itself.
– Albert Camus
fakenews's picture

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1 user has voted.

"Democracy is technique and the ability of power not to be understood as oppressor. Capitalism is the boss and democracy is its spokesperson." Peace - FN

snoopydawg's picture

And how she laundered $84 million.

How Hillary Clinton Bought the Loyalty of 33 State Democratic Parties

Collusion between the Clinton campaign and the DNC allowed Hillary Clinton to buy the loyalty of 33 state Democratic parties last summer. Montana was one of those states. It sold itself for $64,100.

The Super Delegates now defying democracy with their insistent refusal to change their votes to Sanders in spite of a handful of overwhelming Clinton primary losses in their own states, were arguably part of that deal.

In August 2015, at the Democratic Party convention in Minneapolis, 33 democratic state parties made deals with the Hillary Clinton campaign and a joint fundraising entity called The Hillary Victory Fund. The deal allowed many of her core billionaire and inner circle individual donors to run the maximum amounts of money allowed through those state parties to the Hillary Victory Fund in New York and the DNC in Washington.

The idea was to increase how much one could personally donate to Hillary by taking advantage of the Supreme Court ruling 2014, McCutcheon v FEC, that knocked down a cap on aggregate limits as to how much a donor could give to a federal campaign in a year. It thus eliminated the ceiling on amounts spent by a single donor to a presidential candidate.

In other words, a single donor, by giving $10,000 a year to each signatory state could legally give an extra $330,000 a year for two years to the Hillary Victory Fund. For each donor, this raised their individual legal cap on the Presidential campaign to $660,000 if given in both 2015 and 2016. And to one million, three hundred and 20 thousand dollars if an equal amount were also donated in their spouse’s name.

From these large amounts of money being transferred from state coffers to the Hillary Victory Fund in Washington, the Clinton campaign got the first $2,700, the DNC was to get the next $33,400, and the remainder was to be split among the 33 signatory states. With this scheme, the Hillary Victory Fund raised over $26 million for the Clinton Campaign by the end of 2015.

Did Bernie ever say anything about this?

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9 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@snoopydawg More and more Bernie is looking like the champion of ID politics. Really disappointed in the guy. But he still champions M4A, I will give him that. It is his best issue.

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Wally's picture

@davidgmillsatty

I'm disappointed you don't back up your claims.

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@Wally

From Yesterday and one exactly like it the day before.

David -

More than 1 million people have invested in our campaign to make Bernie Sanders our next president, David.

You are why our campaign has ads on the air in Iowa. You are why together, we are putting together a formidable organizing operation in states where few, if any, of our opponents are campaigning.

You are why, despite what the corporate media might wish otherwise, our campaign is here to stay. And you are why we’re going to win this election.

But we can’t let up. I know that Bernie deeply appreciates your support for our campaign. Because this is a campaign funded by the working class, we need to ask if you can make your first contribution to our campaign for president.

Please make your first $2.70 contribution to Bernie 2020 to send a message that it’s time we had a president who worked for all of us, not just the billionaire class.

We would not be running this campaign for president any other way than we are right now: with 1 million people, many from the working class, chipping in a few bucks at a time to make Bernie Sanders our next president.

You can use this link to make your first contribution. It’s important. Bernie’s counting on us.

https://act.berniesanders.com/go/oct-donate

Thank you — sincerely — for everything you do.

In solidarity,

Faiz Shakir
Campaign Manager

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Wally's picture

@davidgmillsatty

You just don't get it, I see.

See my "You're moving the goalposts" reply.

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Shahryar's picture

over at Huffpo there's this. Note the sub-headline.

Tulsi Gabbard Says She Might Skip The Democratic Debate

The fourth-term representative from Hawaii released a video vaguely accusing the media and the Democratic Party of conspiring against her.

Every sentence is loaded. An example:

Gabbard’s announcement cribbed much of the language Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) used in 2016 when he lobbed similar accusations against the Democratic Party and the media, and Gabbard even mentioned the senator by name.

Cribbed! And shamelessly named who she cribbed it off of! There's no moment to reflect on this, that perhaps both are right. That maybe Bernie said it because it was true then and Tulsi said it because it's true now. grrrrr (and I'm not even a Tulsi supporter).

[EDIT] I almost missed this one. Bernie "lobbed" accusations...like a riff-raff street protester.

And her following statement ― that the debates were meant to “entertain, rather than inform or enlighten” ― comes as she struggled to convince audiences that she could do either of the three.

well...that's pretty snippy. I guess it's an opinion piece. It should be on the right hand side of the page, though, along with "Why I'm Thinking of Firing My Nanny".

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8 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@Shahryar

But it was obvious that the DNC did rig it from the gitgo. As did the media by never covering Bernie while spending hours on Trump's empty podium. The debates on the Saturday before Xmas when many people would be at parties. Or against an important football game. And only 6.
But really the biggest tell was when the exit polls did not line up with the vote tallies. After the media questioned that they just stopped doing them. Hillary's lining up delegates before she told the rest of us that she was running. And then still gave speeches to the banks. Wrong and illegal or election fraud..influence peddling?

Cribbed my patooti!

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8 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

Alligator Ed's picture

@snoopydawg He's absolutely correct. But, alas, he is afflicted with a gentle, contemplative soul. Such individuals are rarely suitable for politics. So, I commended his comment again.

Although this next statement may construed as an ad reptiliem comment, may I say that my disposition eschews such niceties--niceties which so many here use lavishly--but that ain't me.

"Pretty snippy" is much too bland a description. This is because HuffoPo comes in barely behind NYT in being lying smear merchants. I shall give my visual interpretation of what I would do, if able, to the writer of the quoted article:

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snoopydawg's picture

@Alligator Ed

I was agreeing.

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America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

Alligator Ed's picture

@snoopydawg I figgered that.

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@snoopydawg
Exit polls have never been reliable though. It is more likely they stopped using them because they kept being wrong, than they stopped using them because they were right.

For example, Gore and Kerry both won exit polls, Gore in some states he lost by double digits.

There are various reasons:

- differential non-response rates (Particularly with age, young voter respond more)
- absentee voters
- difficulty in polling precints representative of the states.

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ovals49's picture

@Vex
the reasonable conclusion is that the vote count has been manipulated. The United States has consistently refused outside election observers, for some reason. Perhaps because the PTB like the outcomes they are getting from our eminently hackable and unauditable tabulation equipment. The assumption that shoddy exit polling is the primary cause of the recent discrepencies is not verifiable for the simple reason that a proper audit of the official vote counts is impossible in today’s United States of America. Believing we have a functional democracy has become purely an act of faith.

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“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” Albert Einstein

“And an uncomfortable truth is always superior to a comfortable fantasy.” Caitlin Johnstone

Tulsi should encourage the other candidates to sit down with her and establish a different format, with subjects and “moderators” chosen by a consensus of candidates. She could even suggest that, in the candidate negotiations when taking a vote on proposals, each candidate get one vote for each individual donor. Then present the changes to the DNC as a take it or leave it choice.

I think Bernie is the critical factor here. If he doesn’t join the battle, then the DNC wins.

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Wally's picture

@tle

He has all the power./s

He's already on many occasions made it clear that he thinks the format sucks.

And Bernie is the only candidate who will give Tulsi the time of day. And if elected, I'm pretty damn sure he'd give her a high ranking position in his administration if she wants it.

Meanwhile, CNN and assorted trolls are up to their old tricks:

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she could even suggest that, in the candidate negotiations when taking a vote on proposals, each candidate get one vote for each individual donor.

@tle One vote per individual donor happens to work out for Bernie this time, but as a system it would overly reward name-recognition, which is generally going to be someone more like Biden then Bernie.

As for the format. I don't love the way the debates are being run, but I am hard pressed to think of a system that works with so many candidates. The GOP undercard system in the 2016 cycle was worse.

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How exactly does she propose the debates be handled?

This seems like pandering to people from Iowa and New Hampshire to encourage the entitled view that they should always get to go first, simply because they always have.

How is that an anti-establishment view?

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The Liberal Moonbat's picture

I've favorited several posts on both sides of the rift here, I cannot make up my mind! Both sides make compelling points, imagine that - and look at some of the surprising individual-on-individual alignments I'm seeing here!

Is this the end of the Democrats?
Is this the end of Tulsi?
Never mind that, what's happening to Caucus99percent...?

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In the Land of the Blind, the one-eyed man is declared insane when he speaks of colors.

@The Liberal Moonbat

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