What Happened to Bernie Sanders?

Wall Street wants anyone but Sanders and Warren. Sounds like an endorsement to me.

Wall Street freaks out about 2020

After mentioning Bloomberg, Wall Street executives who want Trump out list a consistent roster of appealing nominees that includes former Vice President Joe Biden and Sens. Cory Booker of New Jersey, Kirsten Gillibrand of New York and Kamala Harris of California. Others meriting mention: former Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe, former Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper, former Maryland Rep. John Delaney and former Texas Rep. Beto O’Rourke, though fewally know his positions.

Bankers’ biggest fear: The nomination goes to an anti-Wall Street crusader like Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) or Sanders. “It can’t be Warren and it can’t be Sanders,” said the CEO of another giant bank. “It has to be someone centrist and someone who can win.”

I want to be enthusiastic about a candidate, I really do. However, there are questions Bernie needs to answer. He may have missed his moment in time, and before people invest in him again, he needs to answer some questions.

  • Why did he endorse Hillary?
  • Why is he buying into Russia?
  • Why didn't he bolt and run Green if he really wanted a revolution?
  • Why didn't he support the DNC lawsuit?
  • Why didn't he expose and speak out against the fraud that was perpetrated against him and his supporters during the primary?
  • Why is this time going to be any different?

Listening to a podcast last night, I heard that Chris Hedges has addressed at least some of these questions. He supported Bernie and campaigned for Bernie with Cornell West, so I figure he was close enough to the horse's mouth to at least look at what he has to say. These are the two articles by Hedges that I found that I think respond to the questions I asked. I didn't like what he had to say.

Chris Hedges on Bernie Sanders and the Corporate Democrats
Ralph Nader Radio Hour co-host Steve Skrovan asked Hedges what a liberal feeding frenzy within the Democratic Party would look like and why the Democratic Party was so afraid of a vigorous debate.

“Because the party is completely captive to corporate power,” Hedges said. “And Bernie has cut a Faustian deal with the Democrats. And that’s not even speculation. I did an event with him and Bill McKibben, Naomi Klein and Kshama Sawant in New York the day before the Climate March. And Kshama Sawant, the Socialist City Councilwoman from Seattle and I asked Sanders why he wanted to run as a Democrat. And he said — because I don’t want to end up like Nader.”

“He didn’t want to end up pushed out of the establishment,” Hedges said. “He wanted to keep his committee chairmanships, he wanted to keep his Senate seat. And he knew the forms of retribution, punishment that would be visited upon him if he applied his critique to the Democratic establishment. So he won’t.”

“The lie of omission is still a lie,” Hedges said. “Bernie’s decision to play the game within the Democratic Party and in essence lend credibility to the party and lend credibility to Hillary Clinton is very destructive. A liberal feeding frenzy within the Democratic Party would see a rise of an actual liberal establishment within the party – I’m not sure one exists any more — that challenged the Party for selling out working men and women.”

Et Tu, Bernie?
JUN 17, 2018

Sanders, although he knew by September 2016 that the process was rigged, said nothing to his supporters. He was tacitly complicit in the cover-up. It was left to one of the architects of the fraud, Brazile, to reveal the scam. But by then it was too late.

Sanders’ capitulation in the face of the overwhelming evidence of the rigging of the nomination process was political and moral cowardice. He missed his historical moment, one that should have seen him denounce a corrupt, corporate-dominated party elite and walk away to build a third-party candidacy. Sanders will never recover politically. To see the future, he has only to look at the campaign events he held on behalf of Clinton after her nomination. His crowds dwindled from thousands to a few hundred after he endorsed Clinton. Data collected by Harvard Harris Poll charted the downward spiral of his favorability ratings as he became more and more obsequious to the Democratic Party establishment. His 2020 campaign for the presidency will be a pale reflection of 2016. His “political revolution” slogan has been exposed as another empty public relations gimmick.

I would urge you to read the articles for yourself. They are short and will assure you receive them in the context the author intended. When you are done, I still think you won't like what he has to say. Not because of what it means to Bernie but because of what it means to us and our children and grandchildren. Bernie is no Eugene Debs and that makes me sad because we really need one.

On the positive side, we only have 11 more years to live because of global warming.

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detroitmechworks's picture

People are going to hate him no matter what he does. At this point, he has nothing to lose by telling the MSM to go fuck themselves, loudly.

If he did that, I'd have a LOT more respect for the man. Every single time he's been accused of doing something he hasn't done his response has been "Well, they have some good points, and..."

Fuck that noise. They're goddamn liars and need to be called out on it. I believed in Bernie because he used to tell the truth. Now he's buckled under and toes the line. He will do so for the next two years, and I'm not going to sit here and watch it.

I understand of course, that it's all being "Smart".

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

@detroitmechworks

Nader was not holding public office when he ran. Democrats could demean him, but they could not deprive him of his office or of Committee assignments. When Bernie ran, he was not only a Senator, but he had a deal with Democrats. In fact, he had a couple of deals.

I just learned of this one with Vermont Democrats: https://www.counterpunch.org/2015/07/21/bernie-out-of-the-closet-sanders...

He also has had a deal with Senate Democrats. This one, I knew about when I supported him for President from 2014 forward:

As an independent, Sanders worked out a deal with the Senate Democratic leadership in which he agreed to vote with the Democrats on all procedural matters unless Democratic Whip Dick Durbin agreed that he need not (a request rarely made or granted). In return, he was allowed to keep his seniority and received the committee seats that would have been available to him as a Democrat; in 2013–14, he was chairman of the United States Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs (during the Veterans Health Administration scandal).

According to his senate website, Sanders's other committee assignments during 2016 were as follows:[147]

Committee on the Budget (Ranking Member)
Committee on Environment and Public Works
Subcommittee on Clean Air and Nuclear Safety
Subcommittee on Green Jobs and the New Economy
Subcommittee on Transportation and Infrastructure
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
Subcommittee on Energy
Subcommittee on National Parks
Subcommittee on Water and Power
Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions
Subcommittee on Children and Families
Subcommittee on Primary Health and Aging, (Ranking Member)
Committee on Veterans' Affairs (former Chair)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders#Committees_and_caucuses

Do the above sources include all the details of these deals, or is there more that is not public? We may never know.

If Bernie runs for President again, I will probably vote for him, but not because I think he is perfect. I may even donate some of my own money again, depending on circumstances, but I will not donate as much as I did 2014-116. I will not do any fundraising again, though.

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detroitmechworks's picture

@HenryAWallace Nader was blamed for Bush.

Welcome to the villain's bench Bernie, because they will never let this shit go. EVER.

Of course, I'm sure he knows that. Pay no attention to the bruises.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

@detroitmechworks

Nader, but Sanders has considerably more at stake.

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Raggedy Ann's picture

@detroitmechworks
I thought they made him Russian!
Pleasantry

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"If there is not justice for the people, let there be no peace for the government." Emiliano Zapata

detroitmechworks's picture

@Raggedy Ann That Nader, has always been a Russian, ever since he tried to destroy General Motors.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

dkmich's picture

Nonetheless, I think Bernie has to satisfactorily answer those questions or he will have "missed his moment". If he intends to run with the same attitudes as last time, it won't be good for him.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

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This article corroborates Hedges and shows that “Faustian deal” happened long before 2016:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2015/07/21/bernie-out-of-the-closet-sanders...

Assuming he runs again, I would love to hear him explain how this time will be different.

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dkmich's picture

@Dr. John Carpenter @Dr. John Carpenter @Dr. John Carpenter

JANUARY 4, 2019
“If Bernie Runs?” Wrong Question
by PAUL STREET

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/01/04/if-bernie-runs-wrong-question/

I don't even know what to say except go read this. Either this guy is totally wrong, or Bernie's fans like Taibbi are totally nuts.

I too get irritated with the "run Bernie run" bull shit. Either do or don't. I you have to be conjoled into doing it, don't freakin bother.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

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dkmich's picture

@dkmich

As Levine may know, a cadre of former Bernie staffers and activists organized in The Movement for a People’s Party is already doing work to “lay foundations for building an authentically oppositional left political party.” It’s happening, with significant buy-in from key labor leaders. The work is led by young activists who have learned from experience in the belly of the Democratic Party beast that the Inauthentic Opposition Party (as Sheldon Wolin labeled the Democrats in early 2008) is beyond progressive transformation and salvaging.

It isn’t just an authentically progressive electoral institution – a party – that needs to be built and grown but a whole and many-sided popular-oppositional movement and culture functioning beneath and beyond the election cycle. Following in the footsteps of those Gilets Jaunes who are calling for a new constitution and government in France, this movement must demand a radical overhaul of the U.S. political system in such a way as to make U.S. elections worthy of passionate citizen engagement.

Bernie says “If I run.” We need to say when we revolt and need to start now.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

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detroitmechworks's picture

@dkmich I'm done with fucking around. If you're serious, announce it. If you're not, kindly get out of the way.

I have limited time left, and I do not appreciate it being wasted.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

snoopydawg's picture

@dkmich

It wasn’t just that Sanders called himself (somewhat deceptively) a socialist and an independent. By late 2014, the nation was nearly six years into an Obama presidency that had richly validated Edwards’ 2007 description of Obama as a corporate Democrat. Surely Sanders was aware that Obama and top Congressional Democrats had protected the nation’s top parasitic bankers and had expanded the massive federal taxpayer bailout of the very financial institutions that had recklessly collapsed the economy – all this without advancing any remotely comparable rescue for ordinary working-class people. The nation had been given what William Greider called “a blunt lesson about power, who has it and who doesn’t. In a March 2009 Washington Post editorial titled “Obama Asked Us to Speak, Is He Listening?” Greider wrote about how “Americans watched Washington rush to rescue the very financial interests that caused the catastrophe. They learned that government has plenty of money to spend when the right people want it. ‘Where’s my bailout,’ became the rueful punch line at lunch counters and construction sites nationwide.”

Sanders certainly knew that Obama’s presidency, loaded with Goldman Sachs and Citigroup veterans, had worked with Congressional corporate Democrats to pass a Republican-drafted health insurance plan that only the big insurance and drug companies could love. And that Obama and his fellow corporate Democrats did nothing to honor Obama’s campaign pledge to re-legalize union organizing by passing the Employee free Choice Act

Bernie must have known that, in the summer of 2011, Obama offered the Republicans bigger cuts in Social Security and Medicare than they asked for as part of his “Grand Bargain” put forward amidst the elite-manufactured debt-ceiling crisis.

This is my point with both Bernie and Warren. They stayed quiet when Obama was president doing the things that they are now saying they are against.

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The public has been conditioned over time—in ways that would make Pavlov’s dawg seem like an in independent thinker

EyeRound's picture

He has a fine mind and is worth paying attention to.

However, I think we shouldn't lose sight of how apocalyptic Hedges' basic point of view is. It's too extreme.

If you wipe out the entire government, its forms and institutions, then what will you have left with which to fight the power of money/wealth?

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snoopydawg's picture

@EyeRound

and who is doing the fighting?

If you wipe out the entire government, its forms and institutions, then what will you have left with which to fight the power of money/wealth?

I don't think he is saying to wipe out the entire government. I could be wrong, but what would he think would replace that?

I posted his article about where this country is now and where it's going in another essay here. I will repost it for this one because I think it ties in .

The World to Come

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The public has been conditioned over time—in ways that would make Pavlov’s dawg seem like an in independent thinker

dance you monster's picture

@snoopydawg

Hedges gets it exactly right.

It's also cool that he quotes Alexander Herzen, who's practically forgotten now. But when I was a wee tad of thirteen, Herzen was my first guide into the realm of leftist politics.

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@EyeRound

are, and always have been, intertwined.

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Raggedy Ann's picture

@EyeRound
Where do we start? Do we just roll over and accept this as our fate? Unacceptable! We must do as France is doing - we must completely rewrite our constitution and form a new government. What we have now has morphed into a corrupted mess. There is no hope for it. My $.02.
Pleasantry

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"If there is not justice for the people, let there be no peace for the government." Emiliano Zapata

EyeRound's picture

@Raggedy Ann If I can change the emphasis of Snoopydawg's question, just slightly, I would ask, yeah, "What else DO we have to fight with?"

I don't think that the government institutions are inherently corrupt, even though DYM makes a valid point--that the institutions were set up to service the wealthy. Still, people, the people, have repeatedly used those same institutions AGAINST power and wealth. But it's a fight, an ongoing fight.

I sort of see the structures of government like the relation of poison to medicine--uncontrolled consumption of aspirin leads to death, aspirin is a poison. But carefully monitored and taken, aspirin is a great medicine that helps the aching head to stop feeling so bad and lowers blood pressure.

Carefully monitored and used in a well-thought-out way, the government's structures can be used to fight against wealth and income inequality.

FDR, TR and LBJ all greatly increased the size of government--with programs that were conceived to help ordinary folks. Results were flawed--back to the drawing board!

But throw out government. . .? Then you have no government, and power just does what it wants with no restrictions, no limits.

Republicans typically hate the government. Witness Trump's contempt for congress, for elected officials, for the agencies, etc., etc. Grover Norquist wanted to "shrink the government to the size of a bathtub" (or some such babble).

Further work, of course, is needed. Many of the good folks here at c99% are of the right mettle for that!!

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Raggedy Ann's picture

@EyeRound
be inherently corrupt, but they are not there to serve the people. Do I want to continue to support that structure? No!

The people have NOT used those same institutions AGAINST power and wealth. You have it exactly backwards.

We must create a government that is ACTUALLY of, for, and by the people.

THAT is the fight.
Pleasantry

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"If there is not justice for the people, let there be no peace for the government." Emiliano Zapata

dance you monster's picture

@EyeRound

. . . is fighting the power of money/wealth. The wealthy got that way because they were protected to get there; and they stay there because the government is designed more than for any other purpose to protect that status and security for those few. It's what the police are for: protecting them from us in the 99%. It's what the military is for: rapacious acquisition and protection from others beyond our borders. It's what the legislature and courts are for: drafting the rules (tax rates, corporate personhood and Citizens United, anti-labor laws, etc.) to protect them and enforcing those rules against us.

If you're interested in bringing down the level of wealth/income inequality, you're going to do that only when you've brought down the government that the wealthy installed to protect themselves.

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Raggedy Ann's picture

@dance you monster
You clarified my thoughts. Thank you, dance, for helping me with great words when my brain wouldn't. Pleasantry

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"If there is not justice for the people, let there be no peace for the government." Emiliano Zapata

The question of why Sanders even ran as a Democrat is still important. And if the answer is that only within the two corrupt corporate parties can someone run for President, then we need to change that. And personally I think in the age of the internet it would not be that difficult to do so, even financially, as Bernie proved. Small donations add up fast. And belief in real change is real power. Where Sanders was weak was in the limits of his message and in his shockingly out of touch foreign policy statements. None of the current candidates inspires real excitement or hope, which may mean the Presidency is not the way to make real change.

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@Linda Wood Just getting on the ballot is difficult. Parties beyond the Dims and Rethugs made considerable inroads in the late 1800s so the Dims and Rethugs made life difficult for third parties. Sanders recognized this and stated it quite clearly. If he had denounced the Dims for rigging the primaries and joined the Greens, we would have been traduced and ridiculed by the msm and gotten 25-20% of the popular votes, tops (10% more probable). He did not miss his historical moment, he did the best he could in a very bad situation. He enlightened a lot of people and things that he campaigned for are now mainstream demands of the Democratic Party. The leadership of the Democratic Party is now being challenged in ways that that would have been unlikely four years ago.

Make no mistake, we live in difficult times. The evil monstrosity that is the military, security, corporate complex is more powerful than ever. There are mechanisms of state spying and control that could not have been dreamed of 20 years ago. The msm are completely cowed and/or just dumb. Unions have been eviscerated. The military branch of the monster that rules us has weapons that render violent revolution nearly impossible. The one light that we have, the open internet, is gradually being extinguished. Anybody that thinks there is a simple solution is hopelessly naive. The best options we have may not be good enough. Bernie, faced with very difficult odds, made the best choices he could and I think they have led to real, although incremental, progress.

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@Roy Blakeley

what you're saying, but I believe Sanders would have won the 2016 election if he had run as an Independent. As imperfect as he is and was, he would have been better for the country than the two other candidates.

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dkmich's picture

@Linda Wood

run at the top of the Green ticket, I think he would have won.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

*donate to c99 *like us on Facebook *follow us on Twitter

@dkmich
Hillary wouldn't need Russia to rationalize her loss and the left would be vastly more fragmented than it is.

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dkmich's picture

@FuturePassed

I think people from all political stripes would have followed him. There are more Independents that Republicans or Democrats. The partisans would split and serve their teams. Disaffected Republicans, Democrats and Independents would have followed Bernie. I think he could have won. People really want a revolution. They just don't want to get shot, pepper sprayed, and lose their jobs to do it. The ballot box is where that happens.

At worst? Bernie loses and starts a new party like Nick Brana and the unions are working on now. The left isn't fractured imo because there is no left party. The left keeps begging the right of center Democratic Party to make room for them, and it isn't going to happen. The left is united in its anger and disgust for the party of Obama and Clinton. If you're counting the fools at dailykos as the left, well that's a mistake I think. They are the MSNBC crowd, the bizarre SJWs, the white collar Republicans that Schumer says he can get five of for every blue collar voter they lose. The Democrats are the Republican Party sans screwballs. The Republican Party is the John Birchers. There is no Democratic Party. Bill Clinton sold it ought and used the money to buy the veal pen.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

*donate to c99 *like us on Facebook *follow us on Twitter

snoopydawg's picture

Sanders’ capitulation in the face of the overwhelming evidence of the rigging of the nomination process was political and moral cowardice. He missed his historical moment, one that should have seen him denounce a corrupt, corporate-dominated party elite and walk away to build a third-party candidacy.

Just like Obama had a mandate and could have turned the country away from it's current course, Bernie could have joined up with Stein and the Green Party and at least have given it a fighting chance. How many of the hundreds of thousands of people who stayed home because of vote for either Her or Trump was so sickening might have voted for him?

That he didn't fight against the corrupt primary, didn't really go after Hillary where it would hurt and count, didn't sign on with the DNC lawsuit and especially his pushing the Russian interfence crap shows that Hedges is dead on. He didn't want to give up his committee positions. Well that sure didn't stop Lieberman from joining McCain's campaign now did it? Was he punished for doing that? Nope he was not and he was then able to stick a foot in the ACA. Coward, Bernie.

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The public has been conditioned over time—in ways that would make Pavlov’s dawg seem like an in independent thinker

@snoopydawg

the Green ticket--which was not really hers to offer--or whether she was offering him the #2 spot.

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Raggedy Ann's picture

@HenryAWallace
joined her campaign. I do believe they would have won - regardless who was #1 or #2 - they both had the good of the country at heart.
Pleasantry

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"If there is not justice for the people, let there be no peace for the government." Emiliano Zapata

@Raggedy Ann

mattered. In my opinion, what mattered about 2016 is what actually affected people's lives--namely that Trump became President. However, that doesn't mean people don't, or shouldn't, have questions about what happened along the way to that result, especially when the issue of Bernie running as the Green Party Presidential nominee has already been raised on the thread.

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Raggedy Ann's picture

@HenryAWallace
in this instance. My opinion matters and that is MY opinion. Pleasantry

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"If there is not justice for the people, let there be no peace for the government." Emiliano Zapata

@Raggedy Ann

matters to me as well.

That may be why I don't react enthusiastically to posts that are gratuitously dismissive of it.

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@HenryAWallace Jill is great (I voted for her), but she is really more of an activist than a politician. She would have been delighted for Bernie to be the Green Party nominee.

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@Roy Blakeley

had made Stein the nominee. So, where would Stein get the power to make someone else the nominee? She was the nominee, but she was still only one vote in who gets to be the nominee. In 2004, could Kerry have walked out of the Democratic National Convention in Boston and declared Dodd or Edwards the nominee? No, Kerry did not have that power under the Party bylaws. The Presidential nominee, however, does have the bylaw authority to pick his or her running mate, the Vice Presidential nominee.

This articles quotes the actual letter that Stein wrote Sanders. https://www.jill2016.com/stein_invites_sanders_to_cooperate_on_political...

ETA: I also found the Green Party bylaws and rules online. Article VIII is about Presidential nominees. According to the list of updates at the end of the bylaws, Article Viii has not been amended. https://gpus.org/bylaws/#08 And here are the rules that Article VIII references: https://gpus.org/rules-procedures/

I think the most Stein had any power to offer Sanders was either VP or putting Sanders as Presidential nominee to a vote. However, he didn't even nibble at her offer to "explore."

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CS in AZ's picture

@HenryAWallace

And she did clarify her letter, in followup interviews at the time, to specify she was asking him to lead the Green Party ticket. And — perhaps even more important— to lead the revolution that he said was urgently important:

Jill Stein, who is expected to be endorsed at the party’s August convention in Houston, told Guardian US that “overwhelming” numbers of Sanders supporters are flocking to the Greens rather than Hillary Clinton.
...
But in a potentially destabilising move for the Democratic party, and an exciting one for Sanders’ supporters, the Green party candidate said she was willing to stand aside for Sanders.

“I’ve invited Bernie to sit down explore collaboration – everything is on the table,” she said. “If he saw that you can’t have a revolutionary campaign in a counter-revolutionary party, he’d be welcomed to the Green party. He could lead the ticket and build a political movement,” she said.

From “everything is on the table” I think this could have included her not even being on the ticket. Jill was more interested in the potential power of sanders joining the greens, than her own position.

The fact is, of course, Bernie never even considered this path. It was out of the question. He’s been consistent for decades on hating the greens, Ralph Nader, and “spoilers” in general, and said he would never do that.

I don’t know why so many people won’t believe him.

It’s clear that he has strict boundaries regarding his ‘revolution’ and it doesn’t include upsetting the apple cart of the duopoly. Never has, never wil.

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@CS in AZ
spot on the ticket; and, again, she had no legal power to offer him the top spot. The most she could have offered him was asking the proper people in the Green Party to vote on it. Every time I have seen "Everything is on the table" used, it has meant only that everything was up for discussion--and I have been party to more negotiations than I can count.

If she were offering him the top spot if he wanted it, I think she would have so unambiguously, but, again, I don't think she had the power or authority to do that.

BTW, I was aware of the Guardian article before I replied to Blakely.

I do stand corrected on the date of the Green Party convention; and I thank you for that. It was around mid August.

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dkmich's picture

@HenryAWallace

It would have been the only way for them to really be competitive

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

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@dkmich

Sanders the Presidential nominee of the entire Green Party? Sure, the convention had made her the Presidential nominee twice in a row, but that gives her the power to be the nominee, not to choose someone other than the convention chose. she was still only one member of the Party. I guess, if he had bitten at the bait, they could have held another convention or voted to do something by mail, but I don't think she alone had the power to offer him anything but VP.

I am not doubting that you read it, but the author of the article you read may have assumed that is what she was offering. Because it is a much smaller Party, people think it operates entirely differently from the Republican Party or the Democratic Party. For example, all kinds of people were assuming that Stein would be the nominee in 2016. But, she wasn't the nominee until the Party held a national convention and nominated her.

Her nomination gave her the power to be the nominee, but I very much doubt that it also gave her the power to pick her own replacement, if she stepped down. If Obama had changed his mind in 2008 or 2012 and stepped down after accepting the nomination of the Democratic National Convention, he could not have decided who would replace him at the top of the ticket. I don't think Stein had that power, either.

This article quotes verbatim the letter that Stein sent Sanders.https://www.jill2016.com/stein_invites_sanders_to_cooperate_on_political...

ETA: I found the Green Party bylaws and rules online. Article VIII is about Presidential nominees. According to the list of updates at the end of the bylaws, Article Viii has not been amended. https://gpus.org/bylaws/#08 https://gpus.org/rules-procedures/

I think the most Stein could have offered is either VP or putting Sanders as Presidential nominee to a vote. However, he didn't even nibble at her offer.

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mimi's picture

@snoopydawg @snoopydawg @dkmich (edited grammar mistake)
think he would be, had he been 'courageous'. Too many courageous men have been killed by their own people in power in the past in the US.

His lack of answering questions with regards to foreign policy I don't like but can understand. I remember well, how Hedges was disappointed in Sanders running as a Democrat. And I am a fan and attentive follower of Hedges words. I much respect him.

The way I judge today the way this country works, I understand why Sanders was - as you say - a coward. Some say here he had nothing to lose. I think he (and his wife) had. Their lives, Call me nuts, but that's what was in my mind from the beginning and there must be a reason why I can't get rid of this thought. I rather be a nut than blame people for their so-called cowardness.

To answer dkmich's questions to Sanders:

  1. Why did he endorse Hillary? (he was threatened if he wouldn't have done it - that's just my guts' feelings)
  2. Why is he buying into Russia? (Is he? May be he just don't want to talk about what he really thinks - I wouldn't either, considering the Bolton et al.'s axis of evil.)
  3. Why didn't he bolt and run Green if he really wanted a revolution? (How do you know the Greens are up for a real revolution? I look at our Green Party in Germany - they are your cousins - and I doubt very much they would risk something substantial)
  4. Why didn't he support the DNC lawsuit? (not sure and don't know)
  5. Why didn't he expose and speak out against the fraud that was perpetrated against him and his supporters during the primary? (again, I think he was threatened - that's just my guts' feelings)
  6. Why is this time going to be any different? (It won't, if people call him a coward)

My guts told me he and his wife have been threatened. And I don't know why I should not stick with my guts. I can not prove it, but I think it was probable that threats were made. I remember body language and facial expressions of Sanders during the convention.

I also think that his wife has not created and worked for the 'Sanders Institute' without reason in the way she does. Carefully wording and manoevring through dangerous waters.

So, before shouting out he is a coward, I think one should question one's own 'courageousness'.

Peace. I would vote for Uncle Bernie. Not a nicer 'Uncle Sam' around. So what? I would also vote for Auntie Tulsi and Auntie Jilli. If that triumvirate would fight together, it is at least much better than waiting for the next super-man around the corner who promises to give you the perfect revolution, if you ask me.

At the times of Eugene Debs, there was no internet and international network capable of spreading lies and cheating and undermining with fast precision and that worldwide. But it's still one bullet that is sufficient to ... you know what. I don't mind Bernie to be careful.

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16 users have voted.
mhagle's picture

@mimi

with all you have said. Intuition and gut feelings are important as long as you have the best view of facts.

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9 users have voted.

Marilyn

"Make dirt, not war." eyo

snoopydawg's picture

@mimi

Too many courageous men have been killed by there own people in power in the past in the US.

You think he would have been killed in front of everyone if he hadn't bowed out? This would have brought all kinds of shit down on this country.

Why is he buying into Russia? (Is he? May be he just don't want to talk about what he really thinks - I wouldn't either, considering the Bolton et al.'s axis of evil.)

Yes he is and he's not being subtle about it. He is flat out calling Trump in bed with a foreign government. And yeah I think pushing propaganda that comes with dire consequences is cowardly.

Why is this time going to be any different? (It won't, if people call him a coward)

That's not what I'm saying. Nor do I think others are saying that. The question is why won't the DNC et all decide to rig the primary again? The democrats and their organizations interfered with primaries all across the country. They even supported republicans over democrats.

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10 users have voted.

The public has been conditioned over time—in ways that would make Pavlov’s dawg seem like an in independent thinker

mimi's picture

@snoopydawg @snoopydawg

You think he would have been killed in front of everyone if he hadn't bowed out? This would have brought all kinds of shit down on this country.

no, not in front of everyone, but somehow he could have been through the so-called accidents that seem to happen down the road. And who says that what happens now, doesn't bring shit down this country? People will sit on the fence and cling to stay sitting there being afraid to fall to one side or the other. In the end it doesn't matter on which side they fall down. They will get hurt both ways. And seeing Americans to be scared of not only falling but getting hurt or killed, I didn't imagine because I am a little hysterical, I have watched it in person and it amazed me more than I would have expected.

Yes he is and he's not being subtle about it. He is flat out calling Trump in bed with a foreign government. And yeah I think pushing propaganda that comes with dire consequences is cowardly.

I have seen lots of men who don't know with whom they got in bed with. (oops, women too, to be fair) So, I feel not that sure about Trump's alleged sleeping with the enemy. But as myself, one is not the brightest bulb, and like me, the other gets a little older. Why not be a little less angry with the old man?

The democrats and their organizations interfered with primaries all across the country. They even supported republicans over democrats.

Yeah, that happens, I guess the Republicans do or did the same. One can be angry about that, but the anger wouldn't change the fact that human nature weighs their pro and cons carefully and not necessarily courageously and I think that is nothing new and is to be expected.

Hope you don't mind me being sceptical. I am an old German, and we have always been forced to have to sleep with 'two lovers'. Not so nice, but we survived. And in the end that counts for the 99 percent of people.

Nothing for Ungood.

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3 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@mimi

I have no idea what you're saying here or what it has to do with what I said.

Here's the proof that Bernie is totally on board with the Russian propaganda bullsh*t. One of the most serious things that comes from pushing this is censorship and the organizations that popped up to push it.

Why not be a little less angry with the old man?

I'm not angry. I'm disgusted.

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7 users have voted.

The public has been conditioned over time—in ways that would make Pavlov’s dawg seem like an in independent thinker

Centaurea's picture

@snoopydawg @snoopydawg

You think he would have been killed in front of everyone if he hadn't bowed out? This would have brought all kinds of shit down on this country.

Well, they wouldn't have their hired assassins put signs on themselves, announcing who was behind it. "The DNC did this!"

The history of the US is full of incidents. The assassinations of JFK, MLK, RFK. Potentially, all of the presidential assassinations. The killing of lower-ranking politicians, activists, and assorted others who got in the way.

(As a Louisiana native, I'm thinking of the populist governer Huey Long, who was attempting to step onto the national stage when he was gunned down in the state capitol by a "lone gunman".)

Then there's 9/11, and who knows what else.

They've done it so many times and gotten away with it. There was no shit rained down by the rest of the world when JFK was killed. There never has been.

I don't think it's at all far-fetched to think that, had Bernie run 3rd party, he could easily have been taken out (killed). And the blame very easily would have been placed on a "lone gunman", some poor bystander who would be conveniently gunned down himself and then labelled as a "far-right Trumpist nutcase who hated socialists".

Edited to add: I was worried for Bernie's safety during the 2016 primary. It took a long time before a Secret Service detail was assigned to him. I hope that if he does announce for 2020, he gets security assigned quickly.

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10 users have voted.

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

@Centaurea

"spoilers" has been Sanders consistent practice since Bill Clinton ran for President. I don't think Sanders' endorsement was important enough in 1992 for anyone to have risked threatening him with death. And he could have been silent. Nonetheless, for a quarter of a century, he has endorsed every Democratic Presidential nominee. And, even when he was still running, he made it clear that he would endorse Hillary, if she won.

Is it impossible that he endorsed Hillary only someone threatened him? No. It's not impossible. However, in light of other facts I don't think it would have been necessary: She clearly was going to get his endorsement anyway. Is it impossible that he was NOT threatened? Also no. Neither is impossible. The question is not if something is impossible, but which supposition, in light of all that we know about Bernie is the more likely?

My personal opinion is that the idea that Sanders would not have endorsed Hillary or campaigned for her unless someone's life or health had been threatened is wishful thinking on the part of those who semi-idolized Bernie. I also think it very unflattering to Bernie to assume that he would instantly cave and throw the entire nation under the bus because someone threatened him or one of his loved ones. (Even less flattering to Bernie were the writers who were claiming that Bernie threw an entire huge country under the bus so he would not lose committee chairmanships that he didn't even have to begin with!)

Yes, I absolutely know my opinion is no more valuable that that of anyone else. However, I am relying on his actual pattern and statements over a quarter of a century, plus his actual statements during the primary.

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6 users have voted.
Unabashed Liberal's picture

@HenryAWallace

when you wrote,

1) My personal opinion is that the idea that Sanders would not have endorsed Hillary or campaigned for her unless someone's life or health had been threatened is wishful thinking on the part of those who semi-idolized Bernie.

2) I also think it very unflattering to Bernie to assume that he would instantly cave and throw the entire nation under the bus because someone threatened him or one of his loved ones.

3) And, yes, I know my opinion is no more valuable that that of anyone else. However, I am relying on his actual pattern and statements.

GoodBlue Onyx

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
~~Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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2 users have voted.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
--George Bernard Shaw, Irish Dramatist & Socialist
"We [corporations] are the government!" Actor John Colicos (1978)

@Unabashed Liberal

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1 user has voted.
dkmich's picture

@HenryAWallace @HenryAWallace

I don't think he was threatened or bought. At his age, he doesn't have much to lose. If his definition of a revolution is limited to "without harming the Democratic Party", that is no revolution.

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4 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

*donate to c99 *like us on Facebook *follow us on Twitter

@dkmich

As my essay on the subject stated, Sanders had said that Jesse Jackson should have run for President as an independent. (I don't know if Sanders meant from the off, or if Sanders meant after Jackson lost the Dem primary.)

I think Sanders does what he believes is in the best interests of most Americans--and he believes (as do I. btw) that having him as a US Senator is among the things that are in the best interests of most Americans, as is alleged "lesser evil" voting.

It's interesting to me that, a few years after opining that Jackson should have run as an indie, Sanders endorsed Bill Clinton in 1992. This could be only a coincidence, but 1992 is also the first time Nader ran (kind of):

1992

Nader stood in as a write-in for "none of the above" in both the 1992 New Hampshire Democratic and Republican Primaries[34] and received 3,054 of the 170,333 Democratic votes and 3,258 of the 177,970 Republican votes cast.[35] He was also a candidate in the 1992 Massachusetts Democratic Primary, where he appeared at the top of the ballot (in some areas, he appeared on the ballot as an independent).

That may well have been the most serious threat from the left that Democrats have had since Debs (or the real HenryAWallace). And, based upon my research from Lincoln to the present, when either the Republican Party or the Democratic Party divides, the other of them lands in the Oval Office. Democrats had divided when Lincoln, the candidate of a then new and anti-establishment Party, won and Democrats won when Teddy Roosevelt ran under the Progressive banner against incumbent Republican Taft. (Of course, since Ted Kennedy tried to primary Carter, if not before, Democrats have been claiming that even division in a primary is verbotten. No role for voters whatsoever. Thuck fem. (-;

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1 user has voted.
Unabashed Liberal's picture

@Centaurea @OPOL @dkmich

stated time and time again, at EB, Hedges and Street are two of my fav writers. Since I had read only one of the pieces that were referenced/link to in your diary, I appreciate that you included them.

Blue Onyx

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
~~Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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2 users have voted.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
--George Bernard Shaw, Irish Dramatist & Socialist
"We [corporations] are the government!" Actor John Colicos (1978)

@Centaurea

which gives quotes, sources, etc.

https://caucus99percent.com/content/spoiler-candidates-and-protest-votes...

And there was this, during the primary:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/sanders-clinton-on-her-worst-day...

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2 users have voted.
dkmich's picture

@mimi

But I do know that Bernie has to speak to them. If he can't stand up to the people who threatened when when running, what makes you think he can stand up to them when they threaten him to shit can Medicare for All, free education, etc.

I am not saying I won't vote for him. I am saying he has damaged himself, and I don't know if he can raise money like he did last time - imagine what hay the media will make of that - or get the same level of support. If he comes clean and really fights for what is right and just, he might get it all back together enough to win. If he runs with Warren, I think chances improve still more. They are both wounded warriors who might be able to make amends.

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4 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

*donate to c99 *like us on Facebook *follow us on Twitter

@mimi

I agree that Sanders and others who even begin to buck the conventional power structure in the federal government are vulnerable to being eliminated, one way or another. And Senator Schumer stated that clearly as a threat to Trump for having disagreed with the CIA:

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3618078/posts

"Let me tell you: You take on the intelligence community — they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you," said Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer Tuesday evening on MSNBC...

That was a plain out threat.

I mean, if it isn't having your head blown off, it can be ruination one way or another. False accusations of sexual predation, whatever. You can be gone.

Examples of recent hard criticism of the CIA can be seen in Michael Flynn's 2012 report as DIA Director stating that we and the Gulf States and Turkey were supporting a Salafist Caliphate in Syria to replace Assad and VP Biden stating the same thing publicly. Flynn is now awaiting sentencing for lying to the FBI, and Biden was made to appear to have "apologized," which he didn't. Gone. They're both alive, but publicly dead in the mainstream media.

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4 users have voted.
Unabashed Liberal's picture

@Linda Wood @Linda Wood

(than assassination) is far more likely and reality-based, IMO.

The federal bureaucracy affords--to supervisors, or, in this case, Party Leadership--far too many 'tools' to rein in errant lawmakers, to need to resort to (literal) assassination, as opposed to character assassination, withholding of pensions, etc.

Blue Onyx

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
~~Daniel Patrick Moynihan

"Dogs have given us their absolute all. We are the center of their universe. We are the focus of their love and faith and trust.

They serve us in return for scraps. It is without a doubt the best deal man has ever made."

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2 users have voted.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
--George Bernard Shaw, Irish Dramatist & Socialist
"We [corporations] are the government!" Actor John Colicos (1978)

Raggedy Ann's picture

with the dims is exactly what I've said all along. It's not rocket science - it's his job as a Congresscritter. He must caucus with one party or the other and caucusing with the dims or thugs requires allegiance. Period.

If Bernie should run again, perhaps these questions need to be posed to him and his answers should speak the volumes we seek. If he doesn't answer or stays true to the dims, at that point, folks can make their choices.
Pleasantry

edited

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10 users have voted.

"If there is not justice for the people, let there be no peace for the government." Emiliano Zapata

Centaurea's picture

@Raggedy Ann It's pretty much who Bernie is. In retrospect, knowing what I now understand about Bernie's life and career, what he did shouldn't have been a surprise. But he was new to me (and probably the majority of his supporters) so it was a rather shocking experience to see him "knuckle under".

Bernie has always operated as an outsider working within the system. If I have any concerns about how Bernie would act as POTUS, it would be in regard to that fact.

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3 users have voted.

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

Big Al's picture

years ago, probably he himself. When Nadar asks what's not to like:

“Because he did it within the Democratic establishment,” Hedges said. “He’s lending credibility to a party that is completely corporatized. He has agreed that he will endorse the candidate, which, unless there is some miracle, will probably be Hillary Clinton.”

“So what he does is he takes all of that energy, he raises all of these legitimate issues and he funnels it back into a dead political system so that by April it’s over.”

Here we are four years later and it's the exact same thing, everything being funneled into the deadend duopoly political system. In four years, we'll do it again, only some of the names will change but it will be the same thing. They even started earlier this time to make sure people don't get any ideas about yellow vests. Some people fall for it every time.

The good news is it's now almost eight years since Occupy. 2019 might be the time for it to start again if enough people can keep from being coopted into this political system.

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23 users have voted.
RejectingThe3rdWay's picture

That Bernie has been compromised!

He is running NOT to win, but to sheepherd people to the corporate centrist that the DNC foists upon us

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7 users have voted.

When I was a kid, Republicans used to red scare people, now it's the Democrats. I am getting too damn old for this crap!

dkmich's picture

@RejectingThe3rdWay @RejectingThe3rdWay

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6 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

*donate to c99 *like us on Facebook *follow us on Twitter

jobu's picture

...for all that Bernie Sanders has done. He has been able to accomplish much more than any self-proclaimed Democratic Socialist could and then some in this cesspool system.

My guess, FWIW, is that at heart Bernie is a pragmatist of the Dewey school. Although he has never referred to John Dewey in any way I can recall, there are many superficial connections. Dewey is from Vermont, attended Univ. Vermont and then went on to teach at the University of Chicago. Dewey was considered to be a Democratic Socialist and he voted for Eugene Debs in 1912. Dewey is buried in Burlington at his alma mater.

Point being that you have to work within the system that exists, no some ideal system that you may desire. As I said earlier, Bernie has worked the system very effectively while calling himself a Democratic Socialist.

The Nader reference makes some sense in a present day line of thinking. A better and more consistent reference is John Dewey's unsuccessful/successful efforts at organizing a third party. His League for Independent Political Action (LIPA) tried (unsuccessfully) to knit together the disparate groups from the left. Here Dewey failed as so many have at forming a third party yet he is widely considered as the intellectual father of the New Deal. This despite his criticism of the New Deal in how it was achieved and in its (in his mind) insufficient steps.

Has his moment passed? I tend to think yes on this question. All the political guns are pointed at him. He knows this. Having grown up as the child of a local pol, I know about the slings and arrows of politics. They are especially brutal at the local level. You get to see your critics in the grocery sore and at the ball fields. Bernie can at least take comfort in not having to go to the same gym as Neera Tanden or Peter Daou.

In any event, we shall soon see. If he does run he will have to face a barrage of attacks and a litany of usurpers. (does anyone think Kamala Harris' claims on MFA will come to pass?) If he chooses to pass I can fully appreciate where he is coming from.

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11 users have voted.

Is very bad to steal Jobu's Rum, is very bad...

@jobu Hey jobu.

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6 users have voted.
jobu's picture

@OPOL How's things?

Crazy train is comin' full speed, eh?

Can't wait for your next bit of word-smithing.

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6 users have voted.

Is very bad to steal Jobu's Rum, is very bad...

@jobu Yeah, no kiddin. Things are not too bad, considering.

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5 users have voted.
dkmich's picture

@jobu

Bernie did his best, I'm sure. Hopes were so high, the robbery was in broad daylight, and the cops were all out eating donuts. It was a huge disappointment. I believe people will give him another chance. I know I will. But my concern is for the level of enthusiasm this time vs last.

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4 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

*donate to c99 *like us on Facebook *follow us on Twitter

jobu's picture

@dkmich @dkmich Yes. The second album will like not sell as much as the first, considering popular it was and how many hit singles there were on it.

Bernie crawled through a river of filth and escaped from Shawshank and came out relatively clean on the side. Not so sure he can pull that off again or if any sane human would want to, considering what he surely knows is awaiting him should he announce.

Nice post. Thanks dk

edit: added pull (bolded)

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4 users have voted.

Is very bad to steal Jobu's Rum, is very bad...

burnt out's picture

throw that Sheepdog out the fckin window and be done with him once and for all. I'm sure someone else will jump in there and take his place at the podium and finish what he tried to start. Let's see, we could get... aah, umm , wait a minute, right on the tip of my tongue.

Until I see someone better (that actually has one chance in hell of winning), I'm stickin with Bernie and I don't give a rats ass who's gawddamn banner he runs under.

Vote or stay home, don't matter, somebody's gonna win either way . I'd just as soon it be Bernie.

Don't guess this'll go over too well so I'll shut up, need to get in some more firewood anyway, sposed to get down around zero tonight.

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13 users have voted.

All I want is the truth. Just give me some truth. John Lennon

mhagle's picture

@burnt out

Stay warm!

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7 users have voted.

Marilyn

"Make dirt, not war." eyo

snoopydawg's picture

@burnt out

I'm sure someone else will jump in there and take his place at the podium and finish what he tried to start.

Warren. She doesn't have a chance since the democrats have decided that Kampala is going to be the candidate. Harris is at the top of the polls even though no one knows what her platform is yet. "Running for the people" doesn't really tell me a lot about what she stands for.

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6 users have voted.

The public has been conditioned over time—in ways that would make Pavlov’s dawg seem like an in independent thinker

@snoopydawg

I feel pretty sure I don't qualify as people.

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8 users have voted.
burnt out's picture

@snoopydawg

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3 users have voted.

All I want is the truth. Just give me some truth. John Lennon

Bollox Ref's picture

@burnt out

Luxury! It's -20 at the mo, with wind chill at -47. Lovely stuff.

Smile

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4 users have voted.

Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

Strife Delivery's picture

@Bollox Ref Yeah I'm in MN, I got like -30 with -60 wind chill.

It's the coldest I've ever seen.

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3 users have voted.
Bollox Ref's picture

@Strife Delivery

Yikes!

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1 user has voted.

Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

@Bollox Ref
will see the second-coldest temp ever recorded in Madison, -30F.

Last night bottomed at -26F.

Furnace can't keep up, I've got two of the burners on my electric stove going, with cast iron pans on them to serve as radiators. I'm starting to get some passive solar warmup though, that'll help for the next 7 or 8 hours.

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3 users have voted.

Sigh

I have proof!

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6 users have voted.

Thanks.

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7 users have voted.
dkmich's picture

@OPOL

Thanks. I am struggling with finding a candidate to feel enthusiastic about. I don't mean to drag Bernie down, but facts are facts. If we can't look him in the eye to see the truth because it might hurt him, then we might as well be dalykos.

Good to see you here.

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4 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

*donate to c99 *like us on Facebook *follow us on Twitter

Bernie knows better than me.
And on that day when Bernie pats me on the head and explains that to me, ordinary citizen, is the day I spit in his face.
I expect 3rd Way Dems to put me in my place, but never Bernie, and he tried to, and still does.

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6 users have voted.
mimi's picture

videos that are produced the way like the one you show above.

I also have nothing more in my brain to come up with to say.

Sorry you feel so disgusted.

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2 users have voted.