How does 4 more years of Trump feel?

So the Clinton/Obama money wing moved to fortify their position for 2018/2020.

Shake-Up at Democratic National Committee, Longtime Officials Ousted
by ALEX SEITZ-WALD
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WASHINGTON — A shake-up is underway at the Democratic National Committee as several key longtime officials have lost their posts, exposing a still-raw rift in the party and igniting anger among those in its progressive wing who see retaliation for their opposition to DNC Chairman Tom Perez.

They need more diversity you see, so climbing deeper into bed with Republicans and banks is their idea of how to broaden their representation and appeal.

Democrats Plan to Name Lobbyists, Operatives Superdelegates
By Jennifer Epstein
October 18, 2017, 5:48 PM EDT October 19, 2017, 5:14 PM EDT

Party spokesman Michael Tyler stressed the demographic reach of the at-large nominees, saying they “reflect the unprecedented diversity of our party’s coalition.” The party is doubling the representation of millennials and Native Americans on the DNC and increasing the number of Puerto Ricans, he said.

When it is time for Bernie to stand his ground against corporate Democrats and whiny Hillbamabots, we can count on him to quit.

Bernie Sanders Steps Down From Women’s Conference Lineup

October 19th, 2017

Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT) speaks to reporters following a policy luncheon on Capitol Hill in Washington, U.S. October 17, 2017. REUTERS/Eric Thayer
Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders decided not to speak at the Women’s Convention, choosing instead to travel to Puerto Rico to see where he is needed.

Fuck them. I can't stand 100 days of Trump, but I'll be dipped and fried if I'll vote for any of them. If I'm going down, so are they.

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52 users have voted.

Comments

detroitmechworks's picture

I can no longer consider Bernie quitting whenever he's challenged by the corporate Dems to be a coincidence or a fluke.

It's enemy action. He's got more popularity and support than any ten of them put together, and yet somehow can't even give a speech.

Sorry, but he's becoming toxic. Anything he supports is guaranteed to be attacked with full force by both Democrats AND Republicans. They've joined forces to destroy him and the movement he created. There's really no point in paying attention to him, IMHO. He's a distraction, while the rich continue to steal more and more of our land, money and lives. If Bernie's movement is to succeed, it must stop looking to Bernie as a savior.

The Orange Poo Flinging monkey is the other side of that distraction coin. He too is to be attacked by the Republicans and Democrats, but solely to give them credibility.

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18 users have voted.

I don't Blame Christians. I Blame Stupid. Which Sadly, is a much more popular religion these days.

@detroitmechworks as they say.

I think it’s time Bernie got out of the way. Some feel that Bernie is doing valuable work getting out there and talking about issues but I am starting to feel like you are. All it seems like he’s doing is telling TPTB what they need to fight against. It’s totally irrelevant if this is his intention or not. It’s become the reality of what is happening.

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13 users have voted.
dkmich's picture

@Dr. John Carpenter

It is the role he has been assigned. Bernie the hero and victim has the left so busy cheering and crying, they can't accomplish squat. OK fine, obstruction in kind is my new motto.

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15 users have voted.

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dervish's picture

@dkmich the legal and procedural barriers for a national party are too steep. As long as the Dems are safely owned and operated by billionaires, we can be certain that there will be no good choices in 2020.

Occupy.

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17 users have voted.

"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

detroitmechworks's picture

@dervish I'm willing to bet on that one.

Focus tested, Facebook Approved, and a nice 3rd choice which will OFFICIALLY say everything the Democrats used to say...

And then will do exactly what the Democrats do if elected.

Look for it when a Dot Com Billionaire decides he wants to be president.

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9 users have voted.

I don't Blame Christians. I Blame Stupid. Which Sadly, is a much more popular religion these days.

dervish's picture

@detroitmechworks if we ever gained control of the DNC. As it stands though, if corporate interests control both the Ds and Rs, there isn't much reason for them to start a third one.

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9 users have voted.

"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

@detroitmechworks hate.

As someone who, like many here, feels the Democrats do not represent what I believe in, I just don't get bashing the one politician on the national stage who does.

Did anyone see him mopping up the floor with Ted Cruz the other night on CNN? Reagan made the "I got mine, screw you" mentality acceptable in polite society and this is the first time since then that we have seen any pushback to it at all. No, I don't mean that CNN debate was the first time, it started with OWS and continued with Bernie's campaign.

Who else is pushing back against it that has a megaphone the size of Bernie's? Nobody.

He hasn't yet single-handedly taken down the entire corrupt power structure that controls everyfuckingthing (and may literally have him killed if he goes too far) so screw him? He's toxic? He's the enemy?

ifeellikeimtakingcrazypills.gif

Maybe he's wrong in his approach. Maybe it's true that if he completely disavowed the Democrats like most of us have it would lead to the revolution we want. But can anyone guarantee that?

Can anyone guarantee that they don't have the power to shut off his megaphone completely and neutralize him if he did that?

Will he be more effective letting it all hang out in a Jimmy Dore video than he is holding back a little but still getting to destroy everything Ted Cruz stands for in primetime on CNN?

Like I said, maybe he's wrong. Maybe he would have won if he'd gone independent after the primary. Maybe he's wrong, but I do not question his intentions, not for a millisecond. He's not a sell-out, he's not an attention whore. If he's not doing as much as you think he should be doing it's because he disagrees with you about what's possible, not because he isn't on your side.

I hate incrementalism as much as the next pinko commie, but as far as reversing this toxic national mentality of greed we've been stuck in since Reagan took it mainstream, my guess is that Bernie believes it has to be incremental. The rightward shift Reagan was able to accomplish didn't happen overnight, it took decades to build up to.

This county is shifting leftward, it's undeniable, and it might not happen as fast as we want it to, but when it does happen Bernie will have played a huge role. He's not a young man and he may not even live to see it, but it's coming and I believe he's doing absolutely everything he believes is possible to push for it.

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32 users have voted.
dkmich's picture

@Dopeman

Maybe you are 100% right. Even so, it doesn't negate the fact that Bernie won't fight - not then, not now, and based on that pattern, not if elected. If someone isn't willing to go to the mat for "we the people", what does that say about their commitment to follow through on the promises they made? "I promise to love, honor and respect you until death do we part it is no longer practical.

Bernie will either meet expectations or he won't. Some of us expect more than others. Deferring all criticism to not understood 11th dimensional chess moves is deceiving one's self in my opinion. If I have six months to live, I want to know. No bull shit, no sugar, just the facts. It is then up to me to make of it what I will.

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10 users have voted.

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MsGrin's picture

@dkmich I think Bernie 'fights' by standing firm with what he's been proposing for decades. Slowly, slowly, slowly, the country is catching on. And when it does, he'll still be the guy lighting the way forward. My respect for his 'fighting' has grown in the past couple years. He is outlasting those who are trying to destroy the country for their own gain. He may not live to get us there, but he's giving it everything he's got. I am in awe.

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22 users have voted.

'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member

detroitmechworks's picture

@MsGrin And not once have they ever hung themselves.

They just use the Rope to mark out "Free Speech Zones".

I see Bernie as a Free Speech Zone. He gives people license to say things, in a manner and place that will not inconvenience the PTB. It also lets the PTB know where to make the arrests when the time comes.

This is just the start, because Every Time Bernie Backs down, they double down. Not quite sure on the spin yet, but willing to bet that it will be a nice divisive attack which causes strife on the left. Sexism charges are old and played out, but they are fresh in the public mind thanks to Weinstein and Clinton, so that will be the most likely angle of attack. Gotta keep the heat off the 2020 nominee, after all.

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11 users have voted.

I don't Blame Christians. I Blame Stupid. Which Sadly, is a much more popular religion these days.

dkmich's picture

@MsGrin

Tact and patience are not my strong suits. One more time he (us) got strong-armed, and he said, sure go ahead, take my lunch money. Would you like my new sneakers too?

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10 users have voted.

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@dkmich

Unfortunately, this isn't a political battle of reasoned argument in a lawful democracy; this is one man in hostile-occupied territory, trying to continue trying to do some measure of good and survive multiple factions - with lawless aims - long enough for a regrettably slow strategy to come to fruit by the spread of enlightenment, one which relies on the victimized people to help save themselves by finally coming together to do so, because they are the only ones who can do this.

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2 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

snoopydawg's picture

@Dopeman

the Russian propaganda. This is a serious issue that could have devastating consequences. He knows damn well that Hillary lost to Trump because she was a horrible candidate. Period. No outside intervention was needed for her to lose. And lose to the worst candidate to ever run for president.

He was also fully aware of what was happening during the primary, but he stayed silent about it.
Next was the way that his delegates were treated at the convention.

Did Bernie do good by running for president against Hillary? Absolutely. Is he still fighting for us against the republicans? Yes. But is it getting him anywhere? No.
Look at what the DNC blatantly did to not only the people who were like Bernie, but to anyone who wants the party to move left and quit being the republicans' window washers.

People still believe that Warren is still a progressive for some reason, but in my book she isn't one. If she was, then she would have endorsed Bernie and not say that Hillary will be a great president.

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21 users have voted.

I’m betting billionaires taste like chicken. More research required…
Someone should put together a new cookbook with this in mind.

dervish's picture

@snoopydawg because polls show that most people don't believe it. I'm surprised it's lasted this long.

If and when it does fall apart, the Dem establishment is toast.

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10 users have voted.

"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

@snoopydawg I’d love very much to be wrong about Bernie, but he’s way too smart to be playing this game and I’m way to cynical and impatient for more 11th dimensional chess.

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7 users have voted.
Unabashed Liberal's picture

@snoopydawg

fighting against the Republicans, in any meaningful way.

What about the toxic corporatist neoliberal Democrats who are the minions of billionaire Pete Peterson--a man whose Foundation has as its main purpose the dismantling of Social Security?

I vividly remember seeing Peterson on all the cable channels pushing his propaganda book "Running On Empty" in the early to mid-2000s. Bear in mind, the regular 'keynote speaker' at Peterson's annual shindig is none other than WJC.

To each, his own, but I've long given up on looking to the Dem Party as 'the answer.'

Mollie


“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)

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14 users have voted.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
--George Bernard Shaw, Irish Dramatist & Socialist
"We [corporations] are the government!" Actor John Colicos (1978)

dkmich's picture

@Unabashed Liberal

I do not like what he is doing whatever it is.

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3 users have voted.

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@Unabashed Liberal

...I've long given up on looking to the Dem Party as 'the answer.'

Good for you! If everyone would give up on both faces of the Corporate Party, maybe everyone could come together in their millions to pacifically ensure actual change and real, free and fair elections with no self-interests in or behind the government (finally!) of, by and for the people.

As long as people focus on trying to work out which evil they should hold their noses to vote for, or imagining that super-wealthy and ruthless psychopaths will ever have the public interest in mind, rather than working together on forming and whole-heartedly supporting a party which would form a truly representative government to replace the venal, polluting and destructive warmongers and be ready to fight hard to get that party in and to supervise the elections with eagle eyes, they'll be caught in the two-party box where they can be smothered at will by those trapping them.

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2 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

@Dopeman I also give him credit for responding to that Mayor's request to come to Puerto Rico. He'll be back and continue fighting for the things he has fought for decades.

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6 users have voted.

@Dopeman

I couldn't agree more! As Bernie has always said, change has to come from the people rising up en masse and demanding it - and for that, they have to recognise that change is possible, but only if they help to create it, in sufficient numbers.

And that won't happen until enough of the public understand that both the Dems and Repubs are out to squeeze the last drop of blood out of their stones, and that there's a better way, being shown this possibility by the contrast between the corporate Party and Bernie, over and over, again and again and again.

Why Bernie? Because he honestly means what he's saying about the potential for a decent life for all, knows what he's doing - and nobody else would sacrifice themselves to do this.

Bernie is incredible, but he's only one man, who would indeed be shut off all public access for consciousness-raising in the corporate press (and who else could have managed this?) in any event detested by the Dems and PTB, who resent being outmaneuvered and would like to silence him, but don't quite dare yet reveal their hand that baldly - unless he steps far enough over the line to make it worth-while to drop all pretense.

So, he keeps slogging onward, at I can only guess what cost, but always doing the best as he can for his fellow-Americans, same as he's always done, all his whole life long, because that's what he is.

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2 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

@detroitmechworks
by all sides of the establishment, he's still the most popular politician in America. Maybe he's doing something right.

2016 created the best environment for a third party since 1912. It didn't happen either time. At least the third party had an effect on the election outcome in 1912. I don't see why so many people here think a third party capable of winning at the national level would spring forth if Bernie got out of the way.

That having been said, I will not vote for anyone associated with the Clinton Clan. I can hold out longer than the people for whom the elitists at TOP claim to speak.

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25 users have voted.
detroitmechworks's picture

@FuturePassed The US is history. I now live in a time when my state is openly defying the Federal government, and I feel morally justified in supporting my state over my Country.

You're right, Bernie disappearing won't create a third party out of whole cloth. Bernie Disappearing WILL just shine some more light on the decaying carcass of the body politic. A new national third party would be a bandaid on that years old corpse.

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6 users have voted.

I don't Blame Christians. I Blame Stupid. Which Sadly, is a much more popular religion these days.

@detroitmechworks
Bernie stepping out of the way would shed light on different parts of the carcass. But Bernie in front of a podium sheds light on parts too. I honestly don't know which would do more good.

Re your other point, go with your state. I am.

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5 users have voted.
Lookout's picture

How in world does Bernie expect to reform those corrupt bastards? If only he would announce a third party. We suspect he has been threatened. You know something like, "Do you want your grandchildren to live?".

We pretend that politics are the controlling factor in our insanity, and yet beyond politics there is a rogue agency with no constitutional basis (the CIA) calling the real shots. Last President that tried to rein them in was JFK, and we know his fate.

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28 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

gulfgal98's picture

@Lookout I think most of us here are underestimating the power of the rogue agencies in the federal government. The CIA is one and I would also add the FBI and Homeland Security. I would write more, but I have company arriving shortly and do not have the time to go in depth as to what I believe is happening.

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20 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West "...isn't the problem here that the government takes on, arbitrarily and without justification, an adversarial attitude towards its citizenry?" ~CantStoptheMacedonianSignal

@gulfgal98

Although I hope you'll have time to write this soon! I have the deepest respect for your knowledge and perception, as I do for so many others on this outstanding site.

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2 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Wink's picture

Lite? Becuz it's worked so well at fucking the party for the last 30 years?
Priceless.

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20 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. All about building progressive media. (-1.9) On Twitter @winkradio.

ggersh's picture

what the D's don't get is while corruption pays
at some point they just won't be needed anymore
to be further corrupted.

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22 users have voted.

“We now live in a nation where doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the press destroys information, religion destroys morals, and our banks destroy the economy.”

― Chris Hedges

Wink's picture

@ggersh

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6 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. All about building progressive media. (-1.9) On Twitter @winkradio.

@ggersh

And all the billionaires and trillionaires that made them so wealthy will have sucked the people dry and have to suck back the money from their now-redundant enablers in order to continue that ever-increasing wealth-obsession-feeding...

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1 user has voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

I’m really not sure.

My gut is telling me the Dems ate counting on the public feeling punished enough that we’ll vote the correct way this time. It’s still way too early to tell, but unless they numb everyone into not caring, “not Trump” (which we all know is really the same thing in a more PC package) may have a good chance at winning. I fully many who’ve come around to seeing progressives were right last time will “yeah, but Trump bad” next time around. Fear is all they have and with the panic and outrage of the day news cycle we’re in, it often works.

But to the original question, I really don’t know. I’d still rather have Trump than Pence and I’m glad some among the “impeachment now!” crowd are starting to consider the ramifications. But, I’m still not sure four years of a bunglinging narcissist mostly despised by both corporate parties would be worse than four years of a corporate Dem who will have much more support to “get things done” in a post-Trump world. I still feel it’s a choice between a cold shit sandwich or warm shit sandwich, and I’m tired of the government feeding me shit.

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22 users have voted.
dervish's picture

@Dr. John Carpenter I'm done with that. Baal is no better than Satan, in spite of what they claim.

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10 users have voted.

"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

@dervish

Yup, if everyone voted for some better party and few or none for the corporate party - and if the cheating could be somehow forestalled - a better party would win, in a landslide.

Why isn't everyone wishing that Dr. Jill Stein had won? Because she's definitely imperfect? Worse than Trump or the Clintons, perhaps? I really, really don't think so.

A 'lesser evil' is not possible in the Corporate Party 'choices' of evil, and anyone non-corporate, sane and reasonable would be better by far - even though a lot of evil PTB would have to be cleaned out, despite a majority-corrupted Supreme Court created by Corporate Party design.

Time to stop digging the hole deeper every election by picking one of two evils among the Two-Faced Corporate Party so that things can never change because everyone's still supporting evil - it must be damn near 6 feet down inside that hole by this time and they'll start shoving everyone in it any time now.

If people can't get it together to put a really good party together, why not start researching available alternatives, agree on one, push for a national strategic vote to get the corporate buggers out, do not vote for anyone not a progressive ever again and start organizing and fighting for the right for citizen oversight of all elections, everywhere?

What better organized protests could there be than for such as that?

The Psychopaths and Parasites That Be are never going to allow anyone to have a democracy - that's the last thing they want! We people are going to have to make our own of, by and for ourselves.

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3 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Big Al's picture

Smile
Morning.

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13 users have voted.
detroitmechworks's picture

@Big Al Seriously, I actually did it.

Checked the box labeled "Other" and wrote in "Pirate Party".

Because if they refuse to take me seriously, I refuse to take their games seriously.

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20 users have voted.

I don't Blame Christians. I Blame Stupid. Which Sadly, is a much more popular religion these days.

CS in AZ's picture

@Big Al @Dr. John Carpenter

I've been doing a lot of reading on Mike Pence, and it wouldn't be surprising if he orchestrated Trump's exit to assume the presidency and run as an incumbent. And he might very well win if he takes that route.

If Trump is removed, either through impeachment or the 25th amendment, it will be republicans, not "us" or the democrats. Dems want to run against trump, not Pence, is 2020.

As an aside, I don't remember anyone arguing against impeaching Bush Jr because Cheney was worse or more dangerous as president. I remember outrage at impeachment being "off the table" so my perception at the time was wide support for impeachment. Cheney be damned, he's a lunatic with no conscience, but bush has to go. Is that because trump is liked/supported more than bush was, or because pence is that much more horrible than Cheney? Or just times have changed? Anyway, just a random thought.

Since "we" can't impeach Trump, or use 25th amendment process to remove him, or do anything to force him to resign, and the democrats certainly won't because they don't want to remove him before 2020, it will be up to republicans whether the risks of blowback are worth it, and installing Pence before the next election will happen or not. We probably won't see anything until after 2018 midterms, unless Trump fully loses it to the point it can't be delayed. Time will tell.

How I feel about it... hum. I try not to feel anything. I don't fully succeed, so my answer would be, Uncomfortably numb, I suppose.

The useless democrats are not going to save us or do shit. I'm with Big Al on boycotting 2020 presidential vote, and with DMW on not playing their games anymore.

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15 users have voted.

@CS in AZ Good thoughts, really.

I suppose the differnce to me is that we pretty much had President Cheney during W’s time anyway. I can’t imagine how things would have been too much different had the ticket been reversed, aside from the fact that they needed W’s faux “aww shucks” routine to sell the package.

Maybe it’s an illusion or maybe I’m naive, but just from living under Governor Pence, it feels to me that his goals and those of Trump are sometimes aligned but often different. For instance, Trump is an opportunistist when it comes to religion while Pence is full on American Taliban. Maybe it’s dumb, but I’d rather chance it with someone who changes when he feels it’s advantegous vs. an unchanging true believer who feels they are doing gawd’s work.

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14 users have voted.
dkmich's picture

@CS in AZ

or because pence is that much more horrible than Cheney?

Not a doubt in my mind that Pence is way, way worse than Cheney. Cheney was just a villain out to build his empire. Pence is a crusader out to sak people and property in the name of jesus.

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7 users have voted.

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@CS in AZ
of wrecking the American Empire all on his own. A war with Iran or North Korea would certainly hasten its demise -- but even without that, US global credibility is being ruined by extremely poor diplomacy and a clearly fruitless militarism. None of which is specifically Trump's doing, but is rather the continuation of long-term, fully entrenched, and bipartisan policy objectives. Our Ship of State seems unwilling, or unable to change its course, even though it is headed straight for the rocks.

Internally, neither of the two Parties retain any significant degree of public confidence, yet the System allows for no viable alternative. The underclass (both right and left) grows ever larger and more restive, while billionaires proliferate everywhere like mushrooms. President Trump's ignorantly whimsical leadership merely accelerates these unfortunate trends. They will continue whether he is "stopped" or not. The neoliberals who now control the Democratic Party may well reach an accommodation with the hard right, but I doubt they will ever again be able to inspire a massive voter turnout.

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2 users have voted.

native

@native

So, what alternate party could be used to vote against the Corporate Two-Faced-Party Trap in a nation-wide strategic vote, like the one that got rid of the Koch brothers, et al Harper 'Conservatives' in Canada? (Even if the Liberals got in, having been given - FSM knows why - as one of the two options...)

What about organizing massive protests to demand citizen electoral oversight in every election?

Why waste votes that they don't want people casting in the first place, when voting against them might do a little good by building up an alternative - or even a lot of good by replacing the evil, if a nation-wide strategic vote was initiated?

Indies outnumber the Dem and Repubs, many of whom are anyway holding their noses, if voting at all for either party. Why shouldn't the voices of those demanding change and an end to corruption be heard?

Why silence yourself, as TPTB desire?

Tell them instead to go fuck themselves, because you aren't bending over any more.

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2 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

@Ellen North
were somehow able to tactically join forces, then the power of the ruling Duopoly could be defeated. It seems very weak right now, but IMO the status quo cannot be overcome by either the Right or the Left alone. Both would be needed. I try to imagine such a coalition.

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1 user has voted.

native

Cassiodorus's picture

@Big Al And it's wildly successful -- in putting the non-boycott factions in power.

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5 users have voted.

"Earth/Gaia is maker and destroyer, not resource to be exploited or ward to be protected or nursing mother promising nourishment." - Donna Haraway

Big Al's picture

@Cassiodorus

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1 user has voted.
divineorder's picture

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19 users have voted.

A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

@divineorder Holy shit. How many American deaths will result from this? We tally how many soldiers die in combat. Is there a comparable tally on deaths resulting from this war on poor Americans? Will they be buried with a flag draped over their coffins?

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18 users have voted.
divineorder's picture

@on the cusp

The resolution is not actually signed law.

However we grassroots will have our jobs cut out for us fighting against another Grand Bargain for sure.

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11 users have voted.

A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

snoopydawg's picture

@divineorder

I was waiting for the Trump supporters and the many republican commentators to say something about how upset they were because republicans were going after Medicare. Nope. Not one word about it. They were in favor of the cuts to Medicaid because it's just like working at McDonald's and complaining that they don't make enough money to live on. (it's not supposed to be a forever job, it's for people to get some experience and then get better jobs.)

Some repeated trickle down economics. They really believe that if corporations didn't have to pay such high taxes, they would pay their workers more money. Even after people said that this never happens, or they don't even pay anywhere close to what they should, the facts go over their heads.

Some don't care if SS is cut or privatized because they don't think there will be money left for them. The lie about it going broke has become factual.

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14 users have voted.

I’m betting billionaires taste like chicken. More research required…
Someone should put together a new cookbook with this in mind.

divineorder's picture

@snoopydawg

What choice do we have but to fight this? Some will not give up.

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14 users have voted.

A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

snoopydawg's picture

@divineorder

beyond stunning. The fact that they worked so hard on doing it and knowing how badly it will affect people, but doing it anyway, is so evil. Then they arrested the most vulnerable people who went to protest against it and barely anyone said anything about it.
And they don't care that everyone knows that they are doing so that rich people can have more money when many of them are richer than gawd to begin with.
Plus, the tax cuts are going to benefit them too.
This is like when they cut government employee's pay and then gave themselves a raise!
Beyond evil!

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11 users have voted.

I’m betting billionaires taste like chicken. More research required…
Someone should put together a new cookbook with this in mind.

divineorder's picture

@snoopydawg supporter of PNHP for some years.

http://www.pnhp.org/

Was interested to come across this news today:

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5 users have voted.

A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

QMS's picture

@divineorder dammit, don't give up the ship!

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4 users have voted.

Send the military madness to the shrink. Sanity is peace.

Unabashed Liberal's picture

@snoopydawg

if Repubs pass tax cuts through reconciliation, it's up to the Dems to vote on a 'waiver' to prevent an automatic cut to Medicare [of up to 4%].

Cuts to Social Security, major defense spending and interest payments on the federal debt are exempt. See below.

Congress can’t impose the waiver through a reconciliation tax reform bill itself, which means Republicans would need 60 votes in the Senate to prevent the automatic spending cuts — and Democrats would have to decide whether to vote in favor of a waiver.

It could be a tough decision for some lawmakers: Democrats who vote for it could be seen as capitulating to Republican pressure, but rejecting the waiver would risk deep cuts to programs that are important to Democrats.

A spokesman for Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) did not immediately respond to a request for comment on the party’s stance on a PAYGO waiver.

Mollie


“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)

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4 users have voted.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
--George Bernard Shaw, Irish Dramatist & Socialist
"We [corporations] are the government!" Actor John Colicos (1978)

Amanda Matthews's picture

Clinton’s ‘colluding’ with the Russians and the hearings the Repubbies are going to hold just might put a kink in Perez’ plan to ensure the Clinton Creature and her crew commandeer the 2020 Dimicritic primary.

Perez is a sleazy SOB. Anyone who thinks he isn’t must have missed the Wikileaj where he’s bragging to Podesturd about causing problems in Nevada and making Sanders look like a racist.

Observations from the road

From:tomperez1@verizon.net To: john.podesta@gmail.com, maya@mayalharris.com Date: 2016-02-05 03:10 Subject: Observations from the road

*

6. Nevada is an opportunity to fight back on so many levels. First, the current storyline is that she does not connect well with young voters. Given that Nevada is far more demographically representative of America, I am confident that HRC can do well with all African Americans, Latinos, and Asian Americans (dont forget the sizeable population of Asian Americans in Nevada, including Filipinos.). Emmy and the team have a good plan to attract all minority voters. When we do well there, then the narrative changes from Bernie kicks ass among young voters to Bernie does well only among young white liberals-- that is a different story and a perfect lead in to South Carolina, where once again, we can work to attract young voters of color. So I think Nevada is a real opportunity , and I would strongly urge HRC to get out there within a couple days of NH.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/4429

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22 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

dkmich's picture

@Amanda Matthews

This is all the doing of Barack Obama and the Clintons. They still own and control that party.

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16 users have voted.

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Amanda Matthews's picture

@dkmich
before 2020.

This is one of the weirdest things about this whole mess. They keep running someone with a 30+ year history of self-serving corruption. But they run her anyway KNOWING that if she were to lose, then everything they’ve done could come spilling out of the closet.

And hopefully that’s exactly what will happen.

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12 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

dkmich's picture

@Amanda Matthews

When's the last time anyone from the .001% was held accountable for anything? Bankers stole trillions and got a bonus. Obama covered their asses, and they're throwing flowers at this feet as he collects his payoff speaking at Wall Street.

They are brazen. They don't have to hide anything because who's going to make them?

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8 users have voted.

*donate *follow us on Twitter *like us on Facebook *dump Google

Amanda Matthews's picture

@dkmich
pretend to be honest anymore.

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4 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

Eagles92's picture

@Amanda Matthews Because they can just get rid of anyone who calls them out. Brazenly.

(I somehow missed this news about Daphne Galizia).

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2 users have voted.

@Eagles92

That's ghastly - and doubly horrible to destroy such a power for good! And not a word about the investigation...

Hillary wasn't even in office - just planning Her Coronation - when she wondered why they couldn't just drone Julian Assange for printing facts about her.

It's utterly lawless in America anyway, now; people have to escape the mental Two-Party Trap they've let themselves be shut into and let it be known that they've finally learnt enough to forever stop voting for evil.

How can anyone expect improvement when they keep actively asking for the same abuses, only worsening every time, to be visited upon themselves by the same freaking criminal groups passing themselves off as 'political parties'?

Choices permitted within the Two-Party Trap: 3rd world underworld or underworld with 3rd world conditions but 20% more deaths from 'failed robberies' and an even higher chance of nuclear annihilation.

Decisions, decisions... but another party can't win, so why waste a vote trying to break the cycle?

They say that because if everyone voted against evil, every time, they'd be out.

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2 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Daenerys's picture

@dkmich from some group, IDEK, 'agree with Obama: Obama is doing this or that' as if he's still president. FFS.

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7 users have voted.

Well-behaved women rarely make history.

dkmich's picture

@Daenerys

Obama and the Clintons just won't go fck away. Obama & Bill were crap Presidents, and Hillary was a crap candidate. They just need to go away quietly and count their Wall Street cash.

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6 users have voted.

*donate *follow us on Twitter *like us on Facebook *dump Google

@dkmich

Bush Admin's in there too, advising or otherwise interfering without much mention. I just found out recently that Cheney's right in there and has been advising the Trump Admin and mentoring Pence, who wants to model his Vice on Cheney's. And there was some mention I vaguely recall of him in an office, working on something I didn't think he should be touching, during Obama's tenure.

Kind of a hint that likely none of that coterie from the Clinton, Bush and Obama Admins were really elected in the first place, when they gather like vultures doing as they please forever after leaving office, all of them evidently still working away with the new guy on achieving the plans they've been enacting, when they were appointed by The Psychopaths That Be.

And if they didn't feel confident of achieving them shortly without the people stopping them, they likely wouldn't be so blatant about it.

After all, people are still going to vote for them, even knowing what they are, rather than for another and more sane party, because the Corporate Parties keep telling people that no other Parties can win.

They won't allow them to. Unless the people take back oversight of their own elections and strategically vote to get the corruption out, backers/PTB and all.

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1 user has voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Deja's picture

@Amanda Matthews
Anyone know? Because she's the racist bitch who got Trump elected, if you ask me. She's also a mysoginist, with a special place in hell, as well!

Ugh, I did miss that email. I still question what took so fucking long to publish the emails? Why? What really was the reason? That's rhetorical. Just sayin'. Cray 2

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3 users have voted.

"The gatekeepers must change."
Prince

Amanda Matthews's picture

I am beginning to think he’s nothing but a big attention whore.

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8 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

dkmich's picture

@Amanda Matthews

Even if he runs and wins as a Dem, who could trust him?

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11 users have voted.

*donate *follow us on Twitter *like us on Facebook *dump Google

Amanda Matthews's picture

@dkmich @dkmich
a big secret). When he got down on his knees after a ‘meeting’ with Obama and Reid instead of ‘taking it all the way the way to Philly’ like he promised everyone who supported him.

Tired old man should just shut up and go home. (He’s got 3 to pick from now.)

He had supporters who depended on him because they have/had nothing but they still kicked in that $27 because he told them there was a ‘better way’ and they trusted him.

He kept his mouth shut when his supporters were ridiculed, libeled, and slandered. He said nothing when they (WE) were told to go away, they didn’t need us. All he has said is that we should now support those people.

That old man can...

Well, I’ll keep that part to myself.

EDIT: started yo fix typos, gave up

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11 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

is a small price to pay in order to ensure the corporate cash keeps flowing.
Remember that the real enemies are leftists.

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18 users have voted.
dkmich's picture

@gjohnsit

Bernie has been publicly disrespected and pushed out without a word. I don't care if he runs or not, letting Joy Reid and the screaming vaginas back him down was the last straw.

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12 users have voted.

*donate *follow us on Twitter *like us on Facebook *dump Google

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@dkmich @dkmich

Joy Reid and the Screaming Vaginas

playing their latest hit:

Block Around the Cock

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20 users have voted.

I am waiting for you, Vizzini.

Eagles92's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger Thanks for that much-needed belly laugh.

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10 users have voted.
QMS's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger

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2 users have voted.

Send the military madness to the shrink. Sanity is peace.

Hillbilly Dem's picture

Fuck them. I can't stand 100 days of Trump, but I'll be dipped and fried if I'll vote for any of them. If I'm going down, so are they.

Way too many elected pols are quitting or contemplating it. Rethug Congressman Pat Tiberi is a powerful member of Ways And Means, but he's quitting this week with no scandal in sight. Susan Collins of Maine put up a trial balloon about quitting, but she did change her mind. Corker and others are jumping off the ship.

I really think that there's a chance that they know full well that America is headed for a world of hurt in the near future and they don't want to be on board when it happens. Whether it's to save whatever legacy they might have left or to be spared being killed in the revolution, they don't to be there when it all goes to shit. And they know it will.

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18 users have voted.

"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey

@Hillbilly Dem

Or something's in the works that they don't want to be involved in, that's just too much more horrible than was ever contemplated before... another and far worse 'Pearl Harbour/9/11' False Flag perhaps? Some of us have been kind of braced for one of those murderous manufactured excuses for some time, with so many countries on TPTB 'kill' list.

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3 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

vote for another corporate Democrat again. I don't give rat's ass who they're running against.

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19 users have voted.
Not Henry Kissinger's picture

Bernie doesn't need a stupid IP fight derailing his economic message.

Bernie has to pick his battles like everyone else, and a lame Hillbot provocation over a speech invitation is not one of them.

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13 users have voted.

I am waiting for you, Vizzini.

dkmich's picture

@Dopeman

@Not Henry Kissinger

Please yours is the old dkos "do not criticize the candidate before, during and after argument. If Bernie cant hold up under criticism before, during and after, then that's the way it goes.

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3 users have voted.

*donate *follow us on Twitter *like us on Facebook *dump Google

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@dkmich That's a bullshit characterization of my argument:

@dkmich Please yours is the old dkos "do not criticize the candidate before, during and after argument. If Bernie cant hold up under criticism before, during and after, then that's the way it goes.

I'm not saying one can't criticize Bernie at ANY time (God knows I've done plenty of that myself - before during and especially after).

I AM saying that THIS time, he does not deserve criticism.*

Big difference.

*In fact, I think it's the smart play.

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13 users have voted.

I am waiting for you, Vizzini.

divineorder's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger him up for that trap anyway, man speaking ?

Nah, and fuck it, just glad to see he is going to PR. Help keep their situation in the news.

OT, but would be awesome if the response by Puerto Rico ‘changes everything’

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13 users have voted.

A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

dkmich's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger

The best thing about this place is that we can disagree without being assholes. I see the distinction you are making.

I am disappointed he allowed those whiny Hillary PUMAs to push him out. I am upset that he let those bullies win. That is why I am criticizing him.

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11 users have voted.

*donate *follow us on Twitter *like us on Facebook *dump Google

Lily O Lady's picture

@dkmich

BLM at Netroots Nation. Hillary was a no-show, but Bernie got the grief.

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9 users have voted.

"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

@dkmich He is answering a request to go to Puerto Rico and I'm glad he is because he can get them a lot more attention not to mention the focus he can put on the shock doctrine people circling the devastation like the vultures they are.

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4 users have voted.
dkmich's picture

@aliasalias

leaving to spend more time with the family. He let them drive him out, and now everyone is trying to do it in a way so that it doesn't seem that way. IMO

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3 users have voted.

*donate *follow us on Twitter *like us on Facebook *dump Google

@dkmich And he is headed to PR just at the time of the convention?
If I have known PR was out of drinking water for several weeks, and if I knew Trump and the hedge funders were refusing debt relief, then so did Bernie.
Great for drawing attention to PR.
It is merely a coincidence that Bernie is saving himself grief with the democrats.
Mere coincidences are not proof of cowardice.
amirite?
I would like to ask the mayor in PR why she waited so long to invite him.

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4 users have voted.

@aliasalias

To Bernie, what would be more important, speaking somewhere or going to aid desperate disaster victims and do whatever he can to help them?

Bernie cannot be derailed from the most important issues, although many have tried. He's a humanist first, foremost, and all of the time.

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0 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

The collapse of the Republican Party or the collapse of the Democratic Party. It seems like the Republicans are currently collapsing and their corporate / oligarchical puppet masters are fleeing to join the corporatocracy over at the Democrats. People aren't that stupid. They know when they're being cheated and deprived of democracy. The People need an action plan.

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20 users have voted.

@Timmethy2.0
and the whole country would have cheered him on. Instead, he spent his first two years doing everything he could to prop them back up and advance their agenda for them until they were finally strong enough to present a credible opposition on their own.

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17 users have voted.
dkmich's picture

@FutureNow

Obama needed 60 to go to the bathroom.

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10 users have voted.

*donate *follow us on Twitter *like us on Facebook *dump Google

Lily O Lady's picture

@FutureNow

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7 users have voted.

"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

@FutureNow but he was keeping his powder dry or 11th dimensional chess or grand bargain or some other garbage. He wanted no more to do than than dozens of other things he could have done. Sigh.

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6 users have voted.
Amanda Matthews's picture

@FutureNow

President Obama said his economic policies are "so mainstream" he'd be considered a moderate Republican in the 1980s

https://www.google.com/amp/thehill.com/policy/finance/272957-obama-says-...

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7 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

@Amanda Matthews

...President Obama said his economic policies are "so mainstream"...

they're dead centre in the sewage flow...

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0 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

and pretty clear how it hopes to get there. Targeting voters according to their ethnicity will be a big part of near-term D strategy. The fact that this is an essentially racist and divisive ploy doesn't seem to bother them at all. To hell with harmony, their goal is to win elections -- it doesn't matter to them why or how. People of color can easily be given a larger role to play in Party politics, as long as they continue to serve the corporate structure and purpose. This is the D trend -- e.g. Obama, Holder, Brazille, Perez, Harris, and so on.

Of course Trump and his merry band of white racists play perfectly to this hand. Divide and conquer -- both sides do it, and both for a similar reason: To keep political power out of the hands of the People, and in the hands of a ruling elite. The more that America's underclass can be kept quarreling amongst itself, the happier and fatter its corporate masters will be.

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20 users have voted.

native

The party is doubling the representation of millennials and Native Americans on the DNC and increasing the number of Puerto Ricans, he said.

I'm not sure that being a Millennial, Native American or Puerto Rican ensures that a person won't be a neo-liberal corporatist. They may have to look harder to find one in those populations, but I'm pretty sure there's probably some there.

Diversity is fine with them, just not in all categories.

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9 users have voted.
Big Al's picture

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7 users have voted.
Eagles92's picture

@Big Al Lol

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3 users have voted.

is an upstart Teabagger type faction in the dems. The bluedogs got a lot of what they wanted just for the need for 60 votes. Remember Lieberman? Have an agenda, stick to it, tell leadership to go fuck themselves unless there's something in it for their cause. Call bipartisan for what it is, collaboration. Be in every bodies face, talk to journalists and don't be shy of telling tales if someone crosses you.

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8 users have voted.
Unabashed Liberal's picture

@Snode

--an upstart faction in the Dem Party, that is. Everything is co-opted by the Establishment Dems and/or Dem Party Leadership, as witnessed by him bowing out of the speech.

What we're witnessing is exactly what Schumer said was his game plan in November 2014, immediately following that midterm Dem Party shellacking. I've posted excerpts from the transcript on a couple of occasions. Unfortunately, the National Press Club has removed both the transcript and the video of his speech several months before the 2016 Presidential election, or I'd post some of it now.

It definitely made plain what the Democrats' agenda is all about. And it ain't 'economic populism.'

Mollie


“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)

SOSD - A volunteer-run organisation dedicated to the welfare of Singapore’s street dogs. We rescue, rehabilitate, and rehome strays to give them a second chance.

SOSD Rescue 'Barabas The Brave'

Barabas The Brave -- Photo 1.png

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8 users have voted.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
--George Bernard Shaw, Irish Dramatist & Socialist
"We [corporations] are the government!" Actor John Colicos (1978)

@Unabashed Liberal Bernie Sanders is responding to a call to come to Puerto Rico and the women's forum have plenty of other speakers to take that spot, they don't need him (he'll be back) right now but Puerto Rico does.

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2 users have voted.
dkmich's picture

@aliasalias

I'm not buying it.

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5 users have voted.

*donate *follow us on Twitter *like us on Facebook *dump Google

mimi's picture

@aliasalias @aliasalias

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1 user has voted.

"History is what the present chooses to remember" - Carl Becker

Neither party is going to motivate anybody to come to vote for them. But the common wisdom seems to be that gopers are better at GOTV on off years.

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6 users have voted.
dkmich's picture

@MrWebster

the Evangelicals will swarm the polls. 85% of them vote for the pussy grabber and showed up in droves.

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6 users have voted.

*donate *follow us on Twitter *like us on Facebook *dump Google

strollingone's picture

After Obama pissed on the hopey-changey thing, there aren't many hopes left that aren't all soggy. One he missed was that the neocons will push the pendulum so far to the right that it breaks clean off the hinge point. Not a pleasant prospect, but better than being the frog in the pot on the stove. With no opposition and all that frustrated energy built up, this outcome is more likely than most. So stock up on popcorn (and rice and beans) and watch the show. We can start a pool on how long it takes 'em to steal the last 9%. Maybe after that they'll get bored and move on. The winner of the pool can get a free tee time at the Trump golf course closest to their residence.

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12 users have voted.