Done.

I need to say this out loud. There is no one to tell who even remotely cares, so you are stuck with it.

I am done with Bernie Sanders. I might vote for him in the general if he makes it that far, but I am not giving him any money. His refusal to defend Assange is the final straw. I am finding it hard to accept this final snub to his base. When push comes to shove, he picks the Democratic Party over his donors every time.

2016, I was a big Bernie supporter. He walks his talk, blah, blah, blah. All I ever asked of him is not to get in the race against Hillary if he wasn't in it to win it. When he could have nailed Hillary and fought to win, what did he do? "I'm sick of your damn emails."

The primary was stolen out from under him us, and he did nothing. Not a word about election fraud, crooked voting machines, election reform, or support for the lawsuit against the DNC. Instead of fighting for all the $27 donors who gave him money they didn't have, he endorsed Hillary. He could have played hardball and threatened to contest her win and expose her cheating on the floor of the convention, or he could have threatened or actually bolted and run Green/third party Independent. When he had a chance to fight it to win it, he folded faster than Obama folded over for the banks.

Now here he comes again, and what do we have?

He is no longer Bernie, the guy. He is Bernie the Democratic. Women, POC, unions, every stamped and approved liberal group is featured in his campaign somewhere. Ro Kohanna is made Bernie's campaign advisor, and the man never clarifies if he's speaking as Ro himself or as Bernie's agent when he's out there flapping his mouth. One of the two Ros, went on Hardball and agreed with loud mouth Chris Mathews that Assange is not a journalist. He also made some half ass statement to the press that Bernie would never attack Democrats, not making it clear if he meant first or ever, dredging up memories of "I don't care about your damn emails".

The last straw for me is Bernie, Warren, Ilhan, AOC, Tlaib, Justice Democrats, and all the other phony "progressive reformers". They are running around with their hair on fire defending Ilhan and attacking Trump for his really bad Ilhan tweet, while at the same time remaining totally silent on the false charges and arrest of Julian Assange.

Let me be clear. The Trump tweet is awful, and it could definitely trigger one of his crazy right wingers to take a pot shot at Ilhan. Twitter should take this tweet down per their own policy, but they won't. They never remove threats or lies posted by blue checks, let alone Donald Trump. Having said that, Trump's Tweet is still just a Tweet that may or may not cause physical harm to Ilhan. Oth, Assange's harm has happened and should be as large if not larger an outrage than another bull shit Trump tweet timed to change the subject from Assange to Trump derangement syndrome. Neither Trump nor the Democrats want to talk about the murder of a million Iraqis, whistle blowers in jail or exile, Hillary stealing the primary, the demise of our free press, or the shredding of the US Constitution.

All of which makes Bernie's silence on Assange deafening.

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49 users have voted.

Comments

SnappleBC's picture

If he gets the nomination I'll probably vote for him. But yes, his deafening silence on Assange not to mention his support of the Venezuelan coupe and the #Russiagate narratives make him a lot more questionable in my mind.

Honestly, I suppose it might be true that he's walking some tightrope that he perceives. I don't care. Nowadays we have open class war going on and anyone who won't affirmatively stand on my side is presumed to be my enemy. At best, it makes such a person "mostly useless".

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31 users have voted.

A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

dkmich's picture

@SnappleBC

They are on my list too. I am so disappointed in this Bernie. He is not the Bernie I so admired.

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33 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

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thanatokephaloides's picture

@dkmich

I am so disappointed in this Bernie. He is not the Bernie I so admired.

"Who the fuck are you? And what have you done with/to Bernie Sanders?"

Diablo

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9 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

TheOtherMaven's picture

I just had a screaming argument with my own brother because he thought Assange "had it coming". He's been exposed to far too much MSM bullshit and has swallowed far too much of it - and he thinks HE is the clear-sighted one.

Anyone who can liken Julian Assange to Alex Jones in ANY context other than the absolute right to freedom of speech has his head so far up his ass he'll have a hard time ever finding daylight again.

Sorry, Caitlin - humanity is doomed. This was our final test and we have failed. Failed utterly. Failed as a species. Failed to use our big brains for anything more than bashing each other's heads in.

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36 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

dkmich's picture

@TheOtherMaven

Some say they know what is going on, and voters aren't as dumb as they look. I don't think I believe it one bit.

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20 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

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zoebear's picture

@TheOtherMaven

and he thinks HE is the clear-sighted one

.

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18 users have voted.

If we surrendered to earth's intelligence we could rise up rooted, like trees
~ Rainer Maria Rilke

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@TheOtherMaven

He's a very intelligent, well-educated, genuinely good man.

He said: "Corbyn? Isn't he that anti-semite?"

Jesus wept.

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29 users have voted.

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

dkmich's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

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10 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

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@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
deprogramming your therapist.

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19 users have voted.

Sigh

zoebear's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

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5 users have voted.

If we surrendered to earth's intelligence we could rise up rooted, like trees
~ Rainer Maria Rilke

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@zoebear

I went on to say that the political tradition Corbyn came out of would make it less likely, rather than more, that he would be an anti-semite:

Born and raised in Wiltshire, Corbyn joined Labour as a teenager. Moving to London, he became a trade union representative. In 1974, he was elected to Haringey Council and also became Secretary of Hornsey Constituency Labour Party, until elected as the MP for Islington North in 1983. His activism has included roles in Anti-Fascist Action, the Anti-Apartheid Movement and the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, and advocating for a united Ireland. As a backbench MP, he frequently voted against the Labour whip, including "New Labour" governments under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown. He chaired the Stop the War Coalition from 2011 to 2015.

How many anti-semites join Anti-Fascist Action?

I also mentioned his mom, who was a peace protester.

I'm not saying that there aren't any anti-semites with left-wing views; I am saying that being a socialist, being well-educated, and having a mom who camps out on a common for peace tends to mitigate against the chances of him being an anti-semite.

My therapist, to his credit, said, "Well, you can't know these days what's true, with all the smears going around."

But why did he trust the news in the first place?

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6 users have voted.

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

zoebear's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

But why did he trust the news in the first place?

Why everyone at this point is not asking "is this true or not?, whenever they hear anything from the press, boggles the mind.

OTOH, years from now, you might find that question from your therapist a funny story to tell... You know what they say about anguish plus time.

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6 users have voted.

If we surrendered to earth's intelligence we could rise up rooted, like trees
~ Rainer Maria Rilke

Creosote.'s picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

Might advise therapist that W.R. Bion would also have been viewed as antisemitic in his thoughts intrinsic to a more deeply grounded analysis than Freud's, as in his Experiences in Groups, or Learning from Experience. Or see The Long Weekend about what he saw and felt, at age 18, as a tank commander in WWI.

With thanks for the privilege of being able to read what you have to say.

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3 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Creosote.

Thank you for your kind words as well.

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3 users have voted.

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

Creosote.'s picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

I think Bion would be reading you and C99 with interest today.
Tremendous original thinker; you can hear him at work speaking ex tempore in his seminars
in California, Europe, and South America.
So glad to have time free to be here again!

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1 user has voted.
Unabashed Liberal's picture

From his Wikipedia entry,

Early work in politics, law, and teaching

As a student at the University of Chicago, Khanna worked for William D. Burns walking precincts during Barack Obama's first campaign for the Illinois Senate in 1996.[15][16][17] Khanna interned for Jack Quinn when Quinn served as the Chief of Staff for Vice President Al Gore.[18] As a sophomore, he interned at former president Jimmy Carter's Carter Center.[19]

President Obama appointed Khanna to a role in the United States Department of Commerce in 2009.[13] In his role as deputy assistant secretary,[20] Khanna led international trade missions[21] and worked to increase United States exports.[22] He was later appointed to the White House Business Council.[20]

Could it be that's he's been "in the right place, at the right time?" Or, is he simply an ambitious opportunist? Dunno. But, something about him and his Silicon Valley creds/connections makes me a bit leery of him. Also, by my lights, anyone who's referred to as a 'technocrat'--as a compliment--automatically, makes me somewhat uneasy.

BTW, I've heard him interviewed on XM Radio. He's a typical Dem--got the 'gift of gab.' IOW, he talks and talks, but, usually, manages to skirt around everything--and, to straddle every fence there is! Biggrin

Have a good one, DK!

Mollie

I think dogs are the most amazing creatures; they give unconditional love. For me they are the role model for being alive.
~~Gilda Radner, Comedienne

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25 users have voted.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
--George Bernard Shaw, Irish Dramatist & Socialist
"We [corporations] are the government!" Actor John Colicos (1978)

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Unabashed Liberal

that convinced me he was untrustworthy.

People had started pointing out that he made a big deal out of accepting no corporate donations and no PAC money while taking large donations from rich individuals in the financial industry. Jimmy Dore let him on his show to "explain that," and I didn't buy it. Jimmy Dore bought it, because Khanna said the right things and was a "Justice Democrat." This is what Dore said:

"Ro Khanna doesn't take money from corporations or PACs. Ro Khanna takes money from individuals. And that's OK. That's what Bernie Sanders does."

Well, no, actually Bernie Sanders took $27 donations from plumbers, schoolteachers, waitresses and farmers, as well as from the meager amount of factory workers who still exist in this country. Taking 27 dollars from those "individuals" is not exactly the same as taking money from the individual Bill Gates or the individual Lloyd Blankfein, and when people say that a particular Congressman is one of the top 5 recipients of donations from the financial industry in the House of Representatives, it's disingenuous to say that it's fine because "$$ from "individuals"=good and $$ from PACs and corporations=bad.

In fact, I distrusted Khanna far more after that episode of the Jimmy Dore show than I did going in; playing games like that with words does not impress me. I didn't consider it Jimmy Dore's finest hour either, although I assumed he was paying Cenk his rent, since Khanna was a "Justice Democrat," and that was Cenk Uygur's thing.

So yeah, he was probably one of the fakes who was a piece of shit defending the status quo from the beginning.

However, I wonder if a genuinely good person, if they made it into Congress, would end up sounding any different? It's not like the politicians are in charge up there.

That being said, politicians should still be held accountable for their actions and words.

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28 users have voted.

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

Unabashed Liberal's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal


he was probably one of the fakes who was a piece of shit defending the status quo from the beginning.

Heck, IMO, the Dude looks like the stereotypical "neoliberal technocrat!"

(Which is a bit unfair to say, I suppose, since to some extent, one can't help how they look! Biggrin )

But, still . . .

Mollie

I think dogs are the most amazing creatures; they give unconditional love. For me they are the role model for being alive.
~~Gilda Radner, Comedienne

up
13 users have voted.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
--George Bernard Shaw, Irish Dramatist & Socialist
"We [corporations] are the government!" Actor John Colicos (1978)

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Unabashed Liberal

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4 users have voted.

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

Pluto's Republic's picture

...on straight.

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13 users have voted.

May you come to dwell in an enlightened nation that judges itself by the well-being of its people. At the very least, this is your birthright.

Pricknick's picture

I will not vote for him in either the primary or general.
He's shown his cowardliness on much more than just this one issue.
Let it all burn down. This country deserves it.

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16 users have voted.

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

dkmich's picture

@Pricknick @Pricknick

Seriously, I do. I am disgusted by the whole lot. All these so called progressives throwing Assange under the bus and then making up bull shit reasons to justify it. I think a lot of people who were hoping against hope that the "revolution" was real are reaching the screw this point.

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23 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

*donate to c99 *like us on Facebook *follow us on Twitter

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Pricknick

But I'll be damned if I start telling lies now--or accepting them.

If I wanted to do that, I should have joined the Republican party twenty years ago. I could have made a big deal out of the fact that I'm a woman, was a feminist at the time, and also am a bisexual--Republicans love it when people with that sort of background say "I've seen the light and I'm a conservative now! Boy was I wrong back there! The Republican party is the way to go!" I'm serious; I could have really made money and gone far in politics if I'd played it that way. The only thing that Republicans love better is when a black person does that (like Michael Steele or Ben Carson).

After choosing not to embrace corrupt bullshit for a price, I'm certainly not going to accede to a pack of lies and disingenuous moral sewage now, for Bernie Sanders, who doesn't even have anything to reward me with.

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21 users have voted.

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

dkmich's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

If they lie about this, dance around that, they can't be trusted.

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17 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

*donate to c99 *like us on Facebook *follow us on Twitter

@Pricknick The crash and or burn is gonna come one way or another and probably sooner than later.

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11 users have voted.
Eagles92's picture

@Pricknick Still playing catch-up with work and life, so the immediacy of this conversation has passed ... but as I began reading, my first thought was, "Fuck no."

Eveyone else's mileage may vary, but I personally see no difference between holding one's nose to vote for Bernie, and holding one's nose to vote for Her Heinous any capital-D Democrat. THEY ARE ALL DEMOCRATS. End of story.

Vote Green, don't vote, haul out the yellow vests and the guillotines ... but please for the love of Dog, do not support anyone with a "D" or "R" next to their name. It will not change a thing.

(This kills me to write since most people here know how huge a Bernie supporter I was in 2016).

DK, we've reached the screw indeed. Now it's time to DO SOMETHING about it.

(Sorry for the shouting and foul language. I'm just so disgusted with our country and those who purport to run it).

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6 users have voted.
Wally's picture

dkmich's picture

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10 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

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thanatokephaloides's picture

@dkmich

Exactly what every coward would say.

How so, dkmich? I utterly fail to understand you here.

But then, I've read The Art of War, and I may be auto-reading too much of the context into the quote. Master Sun stressed two things before going to war: "know yourself" and "know your enemy". He said that if you knew these things, you would never be defeated in a thousand battles.

I respectfully submit that such actions, acting to set oneself up to succeed, is the difference between genuine virtuous courage and a mere "sport, an invitation to the state of rigor mort", to quote lotlizard's delightful comment downthread.

Or am I wrong? And if so, how?

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6 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

dkmich's picture

@thanatokephaloides

truth. Opposite axioms are also true. The right answer so often depends on how it works out.

To my point. This is the argument being made by Bernie's supporters. "People in Iowa don't support Assange. Do you want Bernie to lose?" Yes, if he has to lie to win. I want Bernie to win honestly. I don't want him manipulating/lying to voters to win votes. If he does that, he might as well be Hillary or Obama.

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12 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

*donate to c99 *like us on Facebook *follow us on Twitter

thanatokephaloides's picture

@dkmich

To my point. This is the argument being made by Bernie's supporters. "People in Iowa don't support Assange. Do you want Bernie to lose?" Yes, if he has to lie to win. I want Bernie to win honestly. I don't want him manipulating/lying to voters to win votes. If he does that, he might as well be Hillary or Obama.

Although I agree wholeheartedly with all of this, I'm still at a loss as to how the Sun Tzu quote which was used relates to it at all. Thus, I appreciate your elucidation of your points just above. Thank you.

Now if the quote from Art of War used had been "All War is Deception", that would have easily gone to your point; but the quote used was far more benign.

Wink

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1 user has voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

gulfgal98's picture

about Bernie's unwillingness to speak out about Julian Assange's arrest and probably extradition to the US. When it became apparent that Bernie would not issue a statement regarding Assange, Niko put out a very emotional video about how no elected politicians other than Tulsi Gabbard had defended Assange. Niko also took to task many of the so called progressive alternative media people who had not put out a statement or even a tweet on Assange. When Niko came to speaking about Bernie, his eyes welled up in tears and his voice cracked because it was obvious that Bernie's failure to step up to the plate deeply affected Niko. At that point in the video, I cried too.

As background, Niko House was a very early Bernie Sander supporter in 2015 and had organized several Sanders support groups among college students in North Carolina including the largest one in the country. For 2020, Niko has publicly endorsed Tulsi, but has stated he still supports Bernie.

My personal position has been that I am a supporter of Tulsi Gabbard, but would vote for Bernie in the general should he get the nomination. I believe Bernie's lack of any sort of statement on Julian Assange is a grave error. People are looking for leadership and what Bernie has done is folded in the face of potentially offending some people. That is not leadership. The Assange case has presented a great opportunity for candidates to demonstrate courage and leadership, which only Tulsi Gabbard and Mike Gravel have shown.

If Bernie did not like Julian Assange as a person, Assange's arrest still gave him a golden opportunity to vigorously defend the First Amednment and freedom of the press. And even moreso, he would have presented himself as a leader in that regard. It is now too late to undo what should have been done. By not speaking out on this, Russiagate, and late to the show on Venezuela, Bernie Sanders and every other Democrat running, with the exception of Tulsi and Mike Gravel, have aligned themselves with Trump and the deep state. Regardless of what he and his advisors may think, by not taking a stand, Bernie has taken a stand. In order to win against Trump, a candidate must forcefully differentiate himself from the status quo which is Trump.

Mark my words, Tulsi's unequivocable stand on this issue, Venezuela, Syria, and Iran are going to pay big dividends as more people get to see and hear her.

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29 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West

"There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare." Sun Tzu

"Propaganda is one hell of a drug." Abby Martin

"politicians are cowards." Mike Gravel

dkmich's picture

@gulfgal98 @gulfgal98

He did a lot of things that pissed off a lot of people. They were wary and watchful about his return. I think they/we were willing to give him a second chance. Well he blew it. If it is Warren or anyone to the left of her, I will give them my vote. If not, Green it is.

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17 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

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detroitmechworks's picture

@dkmich and they're very good at telling you what you want to hear, and claiming that all of your concerns are just silly.

Oh, there go those looney leftists, who are NEVER happy with anything! They're so SELFISH that they won't give up their petty concerns for the sad suffering people who have it soooo much worse. We SWEAR, once Bernie's elected, he'll do all those things he can't do now and he'll prove that you were just silly and self-centered!

/snark

And if I was still the Democratic party's little beaten victim, I might be convinced to take them back by that.

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14 users have voted.

I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

dkmich's picture

@detroitmechworks

How can the Dems beat that? Bernie Sanders. What will be the excuse if Bernie is elected and doesn't do squat? No M4A, no college, no tax increase on billionaires - what will they say? OMG, imagine a boomerang Trump to that. Who could possibly be worse than Trump? But then I said that about Bush too.

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19 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

*donate to c99 *like us on Facebook *follow us on Twitter

@dkmich
Or four more years of Trump? Sometimes you have to take the lesser evil, if the lesser evil isn't pure evil like HRC.

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3 users have voted.
detroitmechworks's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness

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12 users have voted.

I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

gulfgal98's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness my conscience which meant I voted for Jill Stein. While I have many times voted the lesser evil and regretted it, I have never regretted that vote.

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17 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West

"There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare." Sun Tzu

"Propaganda is one hell of a drug." Abby Martin

"politicians are cowards." Mike Gravel

dkmich's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness

Been voting like that for the last 30 years, and no one I care about is better off for it.

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8 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness

That's been the governing principle of liberal politics for thirty years, and look where it's got us. Have we been able to stem the tide of reactionary politics? Has politics gotten more left-wing or more right-wing in the last thirty years? Other than declaring DOMA unconstitutional and shutting down DADT, I don't see any progress, incremental or otherwise, toward the left. LGBT rights is the single area where things have not gotten more right wing.

I get that the idea behind "lesser of two evils" is not to make the country more left-wing, but to keep the country from going too far right, to preserve the liberal and left-wing gains of the past. Have we succeeded in doing that? As far as I can tell, only in the sense that we have preserved Social Security and Medicare. Everything else, including the INF treaty, has either been dismantled or is in the process of being dismantled.

There is a strong correlation between left-wing people embracing the lesser of two evils and the country becoming more right wing.

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15 users have voted.

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

Cassiodorus's picture

Being President is more like being the front-man for a series of organizations many of which we don't get to see or know about: Federal organizations with no real oversight, individuals being paid from secret Cayman Islands bank accounts, the Pentagon, the Fortune 500, organized crime, the controllers of the election software, and so on. This is what Bernie is jockeying for: helping a couple of extra people in addition to the usual cast of criminals who rule the country regardless of who is officially "in power." He no doubt recognizes what being President entails. They've doubtless threatened him and his family before.

There's of course no authentic version that anyone can verify, as the key witnesses all died under suspicious circumstances before they could say anything to respectable journalists, but the likely version of history is some group of people within the shadow government disallowed JFK by having him assassinated (this can be true even if "Oswald did it") even after having helped him into the Presidency in the 1960 election, what with the monkey-business in the Illinois vote count and the usual election monkey-business in the deep South of that era. That was probably the era of greatest shadow government activity, the early '60s.

So I guess I'm not surprised by Bernie's nonexistent foreign policy. He's vying to be our next Jimmy Carter, whose foreign policy was also crap. Electing the right President won't save us, not by itself.

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24 users have voted.

"Centrist/mainstream Democrats are counterrevolutionary stooges in a time when revolution is more needed than at any time in history." - Christopher Cox

Unabashed Liberal's picture

@Cassiodorus

to make me believe that Bernie's been threatened--if you mean with physical harm to him, or his family.

As one who's fought the federal bureaucracy, and won, I'd agree that there is always the implicit threat of financial ruin, and loss of reputation/good name. But, with all the 'tools' at the disposal of anyone in a federal supervisory position, resorting to physical force to whip an underling into shape, isn't necessary.

Think Andrew McCabe,

Newsflash: McCabe Not Really Losing His Pension
By Mairead McArdle, March 19, 2018 8:59 AM

The 21-year career FBI official lost hundreds of thousands of dollars in early retirement benefits, including the privilege to retire at 50 rather than between 57 and age 62, a luxury virtually unheard of in the private sector. His yearly payments would reach around $60,000 if he qualified for the early retirement program.

Attorney General Jeff Sessions fired the FBI’s second in command after the DOJ’s inspector general found that McCabe had leaked sensitive information about an ongoing FBI investigation to the press and then lied about it to investigators. McCabe has been roundly criticized by President Trump for his involvement in both the Clinton email server investigation as well as the Russia investigation.

For one thing, Bernie's been compliant--to the point that he's now part of the Dem Party Establishment (Senate Outreach Chair). More to the point, both times he's run for President, right out of the gate, he's sworn allegiance to the Dem Party by agreeing to throw his support behind the eventual Party nominee.

Why on earth would he have to be threatened? Especially, considering that he's doing a service to the Dem Establishment/PtB by taking care of ushering in several lanes of voters that are practically mandatory for Dems to persuade/win over, if they hope to win the Presidency. I'm referring to college students, and lefty activists, whom Dems fret may defect, and vote 'third party'--if not given sufficient reason to remain (in the Dem Party).

Bottom line, he could always leave politics. But, he doesn't. Hard to believe that he'd stay, if he truly lived in fear of those around him. Also, after this week's interview with the NYT, suppose one could reasonably surmise that Bernie likely has more than one good reason to stay--sounds like it's been fairly financially lucrative for him to head a Dem Party movement, and write and sell books about it. Which is okay, IMO. It's well within his rights to earn a good living from book royalties. I, personally, don't begrudge him that. After all, he's still one of the 'poorer' of our US lawmakers, as I understand it.

Smile

Have a good one!

Mollie

I think dogs are the most amazing creatures; they give unconditional love. For me they are the role model for being alive.
~~Gilda Radner, Comedienne

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14 users have voted.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
--George Bernard Shaw, Irish Dramatist & Socialist
"We [corporations] are the government!" Actor John Colicos (1978)

Pluto's Republic's picture

@Unabashed Liberal , and even this one:

Sounds like it's been fairly financially lucrative for him to head a Dem Party movement, and write and sell books about it. Which is okay, IMO. It's well within his rights to earn a good living from book royalties. I, personally, don't begrudge him that. After all, he's still one of the 'poorer' of our US lawmakers, as I understand it.

I don't begrudge book writers their earnings, either.

I think Bernie has been transparent, overall. I never believed that presidents 'of the People' had power that could not be limited by the plantation owners. That's why I count on powers outside the US to bring the political change we we would like to see.

I agree that no one needs to threaten him physically. He knows his limitations. Neither Bernie nor any politician can really disappoint me. But people can. And I think the American people do, as a whole, show the outside world whether they are a deserving people, as a civilization.

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17 users have voted.

May you come to dwell in an enlightened nation that judges itself by the well-being of its people. At the very least, this is your birthright.

Unabashed Liberal's picture

@Pluto's Republic

Mollie

I think dogs are the most amazing creatures; they give unconditional love. For me they are the role model for being alive.
~~Gilda Radner, Comedienne

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5 users have voted.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
--George Bernard Shaw, Irish Dramatist & Socialist
"We [corporations] are the government!" Actor John Colicos (1978)

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Unabashed Liberal

and the discussion in email, published by Wikileaks, between John Podesta and Robbie Mook:

"Don't worry about Bernie. We've got leverage."

"Great! Where do we stick in the knife?"

And no, I don't mean that they were talking about an actual knife. But that exchange strongly implies a threat.

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6 users have voted.

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

lotlizard's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal  

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

of physical violence against him, or his family.

(IMO) A bruise on his face could have been caused by any number of things/incidents, right? I've never seen anything factual, to indicate that a squad of Feds with rubber hoses went after Bernie.

Biggrin

Seriously, that's simply not how the modern Federal Bureaucracy works. Spent many decades in it--meaning, the DS, or MIC. Seriously, there are simply too many legitimate supervisory 'tools' for the PtB to have to resort to those tactics.

Bear in mind, my suit resulted in the demotion and termination of a slew of high ranking officers and civilian personnel--so, I've been on the receiving end of a lot of harassment in the Federal System. Thankfully, though, I got redress by winning a lawsuit and huge judgment, and, going on to retire many, many years later.

Bottom line, I have no reason not to acknowledge wrongdoing in the Federal System--I've been there. Just don't see sufficient reason to believe that Bernie and his Family's lives were ever in danger. Especially, since he did everything the PtB asked of him.

What would they have to go after him for? He, as they wanted and hoped, corralled a lot of the college youth/millenial vote, and, a good portion of the lefty activists. Then, he stepped aside; then, he campaigned for FSC. What's not to like? (on their part)

The question becomes, "If Bernie was so despised, why was he rewarded with a Leadership position?" Answer: He's a 'team player,' not a threat to the PtB. (IMO)

Hey, back to taxes!

BadMollie

I think dogs are the most amazing creatures; they give unconditional love. For me they are the role model for being alive.
~~Gilda Radner, Comedienne

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4 users have voted.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
--George Bernard Shaw, Irish Dramatist & Socialist
"We [corporations] are the government!" Actor John Colicos (1978)

Pricknick's picture

@Cassiodorus

They've doubtless threatened him and his family before.

Where's the proof?
If the only proof is only him, he better start talking about it. Otherwise it's ct in my book.

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13 users have voted.

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Cassiodorus's picture

@Pricknick Without any repercussions. Or not.

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"Centrist/mainstream Democrats are counterrevolutionary stooges in a time when revolution is more needed than at any time in history." - Christopher Cox

Pricknick's picture

@Cassiodorus
I'm waiting.
If you have none please stop repeating it. It sounds like msm.

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9 users have voted.

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

@Pricknick No one has proof that Bernie was threatened, but he had been an active and outspoken progressive his entire adult life, putting in decades of public service in single-minded pursuit of economic and social justice. He ran an exciting, idealistic campaign in 2015-16, awakening a huge swath of younger voters and reawakening those of us who are older, infusing ideas into the body politic that hadn't been there since the 60s-70s, and those ideas remain (sometimes merely as slogans like Medicare for All and free college tuition), though they are absolute anathema to establishment politicians and the powers they serve. There is a huge effort underway to stamp out what Bernie started or siphon it off with seductive controlled opposition candidates.

Is Bernie still the same person? I'm not sure. There are photos and video footage indicating that something happened to him (somebody or bodies did something to him) at the 2016 Democratic Convention that permanently altered his demeanor, his spirit. Here is one account with photos: https://newspunch.com/dnc-witnesses-say-bernie-sanders-was-physically-as... and here is the tail end of a remarkable video with footage that suggests immense disturbance within Bernie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHD_bj5fXO0&feature=youtu.be&t=835 To me that footage shows someone who has been completely disillusioned. He recovered his jolly exterior, sort of, and he did protest in support of Standing Rock, but he says things now that the old Bernie would never have said. I loved the original Bernie, but I think something died (or was killed) in him. Given his excellent history, I'd still take him over any other Democratic contender except Tulsi, because Tulsi is not broken; she's whole, she speaks truth like Bernie used to, and she is courageous like Bernie was. A Bernie-Tulsi ticket would probably be more feasible than President Gabbard, and that would be okay with me since Bernie is very likely too old to want to serve out two terms.

But yeah, I think "they" did something to him, threatened him, and I sense it was ugly.

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15 users have voted.
mimi's picture

@laurel
you linked to. As I was an outsider and at that time not really aware of all the HIllary and Obama shenanigans (sorry to not have better words) I strangely enough never forgot Sander's facial expressions and body language of that moment, being stone faced and wiggling uncharacteristically on his chair. He was definitely and completely uncomfortable. I thought something was wrong there and couldn't forget those images. Sometimes I mentioned that in comments, but felt it is not worth trying to say that, because the push back like 'Where is the proof' made any comment along those lines useless.

Of course one has no proof and Sanders never said anything (which I don't see as a sign of cowardice, but actually a sign of common sense, as I believe he knows what is behind the whole thing and he is so disgusted about it, that he wouldn't bring it into the public, because we the voters wouldn't be able to handle it - which this thread proves imo).

I don't accuse him of cowardice. What's one man's cowardice is another man's cautious reasoning.

And the whole debate is painful. In the end you have to either vote for someone or you don't vote. I supported once Obama in his first campaign events, then I supported Sanders AND I darn well will support Gabbard now together with Sanders. Whoever wins, wins, may be they win together. I donated my pennies to all of them once upon the time and don't regret having done so. I supported Obama more for personal reasons, not understanding his 'charm attacks being phony', because it was the first time I had a chance to make my son aware of political campaigns and I believed he could relate to Obama more because of his own family history. That was also a somber lecture for us and I guess I will never 'trust' or 'support' anyone for any Identity markers again.

Listening to Obama's speech in Berlin lately, I was somberly reminded how much I didn't see what he was in the beginning of his presidential campaigns. It is quite an uncomfortable shock. There are these wise quotes from Sun Tzu, The Art of War:

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

Today I happen to think that is more important to know yourself and that this is also more difficult. But then what the heck ...

Obama failed. Bernie hasn't failed yet, Tulsi has everything in front of her. So far one can only pray that both Sanders and Tulsi don't get destroyed. And the lust to destroy and self-destroy is so persistent in us humans ... you can only throw up.

Bernie, Tulsi, (and whoever you would like to see in this) keep on going on. Darn it.


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9 users have voted.
dkmich's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness

Been voting like that for the last 30 years, and no one I care about is better off for it. @laurel

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

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dkmich's picture

@laurel

Then why is he running again? Did he change something to be safe? If so, what? And if he's compromised to make "them" happy, what of us did he give away?

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10 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

*donate to c99 *like us on Facebook *follow us on Twitter

@dkmich Sorry to be so late in responding.

Then why is he running again? Did he change something to be safe? If so, what? And if he's compromised to make "them" happy, what of us did he give away?

Bernie emerged from the 2016 election with a vastly elevated profile, polling extremely well with Democrats and independents, along with a heady taste of stardom and power that he'd never had before. So there is probably an ego element to it, but there could also be a genuine desire to change the country for the better, which he now would have a shot at doing. I doubt that his once-noble dreams are entirely dead. However, he wouldn't be doing this well if TPTB were not permitting it. Just look at how they've been snuffing out Tulsi's very existence before she even gets a foothold. And this, of course, is the worrisome part. Why are they letting him run? I gave his 2016 campaign more money than I could afford and have been receiving numerous messages from them, some that almost feel like extortion. These new soulless strong-arm tactics are nothing like his 2016 campaign; it's as if they were designed to alienate his base. Recently it came out that a higher-up from the former Clinton campaign is now running Bernie's campaign. And he's allowing it. So he's thoroughly pwned, letting them use him for their own ends -- which could could be anything from the harnessing (and slow destruction?) of progressive momentum to the ruination of Bernie and the elimination of his base as a threat.

I found it very easy to sign up for monthly donations to the Tulsi campaign but could not bring myself to give more than a few dollars to help Bernie meet some sort of deadline.

It's incredibly sad, yet I don't think he has completely forgotten us. I think he's owned against his will. Still, I'd rather have him in office than any of the less-conflicted candidates including Elizabeth Warren whom I no longer trust at all.

The ... establishment? oligarchy? neocons/neoliberals? Deep State? ... are mind-mindbogglingly destructive and cruel in pursuit of what increasingly looks (to me) like an agenda to exert totalitarian control over much if not all of the world.

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0 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@laurel

I hadn't seen it before and I hope others will. I didn't see what all happened at the DNC convention with Bernie's supporters and how they were treated. Thank you for posting it.

Must watch

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7 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Pricknick @Pricknick

and the discussion in email, published by Wikileaks, between John Podesta and Robbie Mook:

"Don't worry about Bernie. We've got leverage."

"Great! Where do we stick in the knife?"

I don't know that the leverage Podesta talked about was a physical threat, though someone certainly seems to have reminded Sanders just before the convention that he should behave. But I challenge anybody to interpret that exchange between Hillary's campaign chair and campaign manager in a way that doesn't involve a threat to Sanders.

I don't get, really, why this hypothesis causes such consternation and pushback. It seems like a fairly ordinary outcome of living under a bunch of psychopathic oligarchs.

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9 users have voted.

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

@Cassiodorus overt threats are needed for someone with such a long track record in the halls of power of Congress as the Bernmeister. Those in his position who aren't utterly stupid understand the game after a few yrs, along the lines of Chuck "Six Ways to Sunday" Schumer. It takes courage to buck the system, the DeepState. Rare stuff. Tulsi Gabbard has shown it, but it's not entirely surprising the rest of the polite, weak-willed Dems including Bernie have taken a convenient dive. But he has his Fox Town Hall tomorrow I believe and since it's Fox and they might logically want to make socialist Bernie squirm, he might well get the Assange question.

As to JFK, you have it only partly right. No, LHO did no rifle shooting that day, per the negative paraffin tests. No, there was no payback by the people who got JFK elected -- did the CIA help him in 1960? I don't think so. And no, no Mafia involvement, else why would RFK/JFK go after the Mob so vigorously after the election? Did the old man just forget to tell his boys he'd paid them off in IL and so it would be highly dangerous to prosecute them? And finally on IL, a Repub-appointed State Elections Board, upon complaint from the RNC, found no evidence to overturn the results or rec a redo. A Republican Board. A small little historical detail that often gets overlooked.

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10 users have voted.
Pluto's Republic's picture

@Cassiodorus

...before the convention. I have assumed that he was hit with the Russia Hoax in a full-court press by the CIA... and of course, he bought it completely. He was told that dividing the vote in any way would hand Russia control over the US. The only way to fight back was to throw his weight behind Hillary.

Naturally, they needed Hillary to win so that no one would find out what we now know — that the intelligence agencies went rogue and tried to overthrow a US Presidential election. They started early, with CrowdStrike's phony Russian Hack in May, which was thoroughly debunked very early on. The MSM went crazy with 24/7 propaganda drowning that out — for years. Whether Bernie believed it or not, that was the way the powers were going to push it, and they would double down again and again and again, long after the elections were over.

So Bernie had to buy it — or pretend to buy it — to live another day. Otherwise he would have been banished into the wilderness as a Russian operative. Sander's Marxist leanings is an even more convincing blackwash than the one they pulled on Trump.

He no doubt recognizes what being President entails. They've doubtless threatened him and his family before.

Bernie knows what he knows. He threaded that needle and came back strong with clean hands. However, a huge swathe of the American people, the unrepresented and silenced Left across the nation, are the wind under his wings. They are out there. They are not in here, where we belabor the political intricacies of our rogue government and the corrupt war, media, energy, and wall street corporations that have captured it. They've turned this nation into a customized money pump, and they drain the majority government revenues into their own pockets. They owe us nothing. They don't have an ideology. They win under Donald Trump the same as under Hillary Clinton.

That's what Bernie did not try to fight. If he had, there would be no Bernie. The MSM would have shredded him into a million tiny pieces and virtually killed him long ago.

He can't tell that story. He just preserveres.

I'm agnostic. It's reality, not a message.

I only know that their criminal greed has fueled the rise of a vast, silent Left in America. The nation's owners know it, too. That's why a big chunk of the Democratic Party is also running for President, to muddy the waters. In the end, Biden will enter the race late as the great Democratic hope. The people will vote in their pretend democracy like they always do. And the wars will go on and the money will flow to pay for them.

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14 users have voted.

May you come to dwell in an enlightened nation that judges itself by the well-being of its people. At the very least, this is your birthright.

dkmich's picture

@Pluto's Republic

When someone is honest and altruistic, they can project those values onto others and be pretty naive. I can see Bernie being a patriot before I can see him being a coward. Bernie's change happened immediately after Obama "summoned" Bernie to the WH to meet with him. Very plausible Pluto.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

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Cassiodorus's picture

@Pluto's Republic To everyone else: No, I'm not defending Bernie. Bernie is what he is.

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3 users have voted.

"Centrist/mainstream Democrats are counterrevolutionary stooges in a time when revolution is more needed than at any time in history." - Christopher Cox

OzoneTom's picture

@Pluto's Republic
I respect Senator Sanders and his willingness to let others lead rather than insert himself into every conversation.

Representative Gabbard is showing great leadership on the Assange front and is getting great exposure as a result. I also expect Sanders to answer when asked and to have a position close to Gabbard's.

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4 users have voted.

@Pluto's Republic
thanks for that. giving full consideration to the subtleties of other people's circumstances and motivations is difficult for everybody, and anyone asking folks to do so is likely to meet with more derision than gratitude.

it's always bothered me that people rarely seem to realize that, unlike Jill Stein, sanders had something very immediate to lose by flipping the bird at the DNC: power in the senate. and beyond the danger of being shredded by the MSM, something that americans in general really can't stand is a sore loser. sanders appears to understand this in a way that HRC simply does not: That every single time she opens her damned mouth to complain about this reason or that reason for her loss, she increases the aggregate antipathy towards her. he can afford to grumble on behalf of HRC -- this only makes him seem to be a team player -- but he cannot afford to grumble on behalf of himself. by taking the high ground as a candidate, rather than as a leftist martyr, sanders is more popular than ever four years later.

as far as full-court press from the CIA, there's a retired GOP congressman who pops up as a commentator on an oddball local radio station out of Monroe, WI. can't remember his name off the top of my head, but he voted for the AUMF, a vote he expressly regrets. all he offers as justification is, "If you had been shown and told what we were shown and told, you would have voted for it too." he understands now that he was straight-up lied to, but at the time he didn't consider that as a possibility.

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4 users have voted.

Sigh

The Aspie Corner's picture

He's controlled opposition for capital, as are AOC, Omar and the rest. Julian Assange is, or was, useful to them as well. They'll find another soon enough.

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8 users have voted.

Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.

snoopydawg's picture

People were so upset when Hillary and the DNC rigged the primary against Bernie that they Dem exited and either voted green or stayed home. But now Bernie is running again and people are coming back to the Democratic Party to support his campaign with money that many can't afford to give him. Why? He's still running as a democrat which was the party that screwed him. Is he speaking out against how democrats are letting McConnell pack the courts with right wing judges? Or asked the democrats that are helping him do that wtf are they thinking? Doing anything to stop what is happening to immigrants and how Trump is bending the law as far as he can? Or if Trump is so dangerous why won't Nancy bring impeachment up?

Then there's Tulsi who is saying that she is the Peace Candidate even though she is still in the national guard and a member of the Democratic Party, but since this is about Bernie I'll stop here.

Democrats have flooded the field with lots of Obama type centrist candidates and most people know why they have done that. To make sure that no one wins the primary so that there has to be another vote which will allow the super delegates to choose the candidate. Or even worse... to install Hillary during the convention.

It's good to see Bernie's sticking up for Omar like he has, but his silence on Julian is unacceptable. If you see wrongful things being done and you don't speak out against them then you're giving people the impression that you accept the wrongdoing. Bernie can afford to piss off the banks, the oil companies and the insurance companies because he doesn't take their money. Plenty of democrats do and they will make sure that the corporations are protected. But this is not only a first amendment issue, it's a crime against humanity because everyone involved in it knows damn well what is in store for Julian if we get him in this country! Does that mean that Bernie accepts the fact that we have the right to rendition anyone who we don't like and then lock them up after their kangaroo court proceedings? If not then I want to hear him saying that.

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21 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
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dkmich's picture

@snoopydawg

Nor has he bothered to even explain to us what happened in 2016 and why this time is going to be any different. Giving him the benefit of a doubt, he isn't bought and sold. He is just too old and set in his ways to think he has to accommodate anyone's thoughts but his own.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

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snoopydawg's picture

@dkmich

he said yes without any hesitation. And like you say here he took Hillary's emails off the table in the first debate. This was a serious issue for many people and yet Bernie basically said that there was no there there and we shouldn't care that she was under investigation by the FBI for using her private email server. Even though the investigation was a sham she will be in the history books for the candidate under investigation during her run for president.

Oh I know that Trump was too, but it was a bogus one in my opinion. The FBI had no business doing that because they had setup the case of him being a Russian puppet in the first place. Hillary actually did something wrong.

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19 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

Pluto's Republic's picture

@snoopydawg

Really. They weren't. Hillary did plenty of wrong things in the war crimes world. By international standards, she is a war criminal. Until the US prosecutes its own war criminals (by the same standards it has prosecuted and murdered the war criminals of other nations), it is not a nation that practices the rule of law. It makes no sense to expect that or to even be disappointed about it. Why go there?

In a practical sense, if the Democrats prevail in the 2020 elections, people we feel more protected, even as their lives are shredded by poverty, medical neglect, ignorance, and injustice. The Republicans follow the same path without the bedside manners. We entered the Depopulation some time ago. First amendment rights had to go. As it is, we only discuss the tiniest range of limited topics in our national discourse. And it turns out we didn't really have investigative journalists. You saw them all melt away during the Russia Hoax. A few moved to Europe. A few migrated to RT. Twitter and Facebook will silence the rest. Enough of their words will be allowed to trickle out and this will be used to track down their readers. That's how it has always worked.

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May you come to dwell in an enlightened nation that judges itself by the well-being of its people. At the very least, this is your birthright.

snoopydawg's picture

@Pluto's Republic

and she got away with doing it after Obama prosecuted people for legal whistleblowering. We know that if any little person did what she did their buttocks would be sitting in prison. At least one foreign country got access to her emails.

People had the right to know that the person who was running for the highest office broke the law. Whether Obama was going to prosecute her or not. This was an important issue to many people and Bernie told them to just blow it off. It was important to me.

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19 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

gulfgal98's picture

@snoopydawg Hillary clearly broke the law and also broke al protocols in the State Dept.

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14 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West

"There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare." Sun Tzu

"Propaganda is one hell of a drug." Abby Martin

"politicians are cowards." Mike Gravel

Pluto's Republic's picture

@snoopydawg

There was hearing after hearing about it.

Julian Assange also broke security laws, technically.

She wasn't punished. Strings were pulled.

I am far more offended that she wasn't punished for her war crimes, where there was real destruction and loss of life.

As for security laws, I am sick of classified documents. I believe they are all cover-ups for efforts leading to war crimes. I believe the preponderance of them are created mostly by the Deep State and classified to hide their criminal activities. I believe they should be exposed whenever possible. I believe the people should know everything that the country is doing behind their backs. I think Hillary deserves an award for being so careless. But it turns out none of her documents, that we have seen, were worth anything anyway.

Who are the people who care so deeply that Hillary wasn't punished for running her own server? Besides the usual Republican Hillary haters? I just have no sense of these people who are sincerely concerned about the unknown classified documents that Hillary mishandled, and sincerely concerned that she wasn't punished by the government.

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12 users have voted.

May you come to dwell in an enlightened nation that judges itself by the well-being of its people. At the very least, this is your birthright.

@Pluto's Republic some of these supposed concerned people stayed up late at night worrying about whether the SoS's emails would compromise vital national security secrets to a foreign power. And they probably slept so much better once she was out of office and yet our country still managed to survive her recklessness.

Indeed, last I checked an extraordinary number of gov't docs are classified, some probably still in the deep freeze from the Spanish American War.

Have some people here been watching too much Malcolm Nance/John Brennan/James Clapper on MSNBC?

Bernie was right on that one, and I applauded when he said it.

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5 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Pluto's Republic

Chelsea Manning was the one who broke rules.

Assange is not a member of our armed forces or our government and, apart from releasing information that would impede a criminal investigation, doesn't have to obey any rules except those of accuracy.

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13 users have voted.

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Pluto's Republic

A server without a password? For two months?

I'm not particularly invested in this ugly empire I'm subject to, but that kind of wholesale open-door policy concerns me a bit. Anybody with a little technical skill who wanted to could have walked right in and accessed everything.

Worse is the fact that there are people who have a criminal record for far less, like that Navy guy who stupidly took pictures of the inside of his sub and sent them to his family. But no, I don't like the way she, supposedly our top diplomat, was reckless with data.

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11 users have voted.

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

Pluto's Republic's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

...of destroying a nation and its people, who did not attack the United States. But to skip over this massive injustice and war crime against humanity for some common non-intentional bureaucratic mistake the in US — this means nothing to the world that she damaged and the lives she destroyed — I don't have words for how deeply shameful that is.

What kind of people would close their eyes to such an atrocity and pretend some kind of justice was done if she were fined for an email crime, as our first priority. Because a sailor was railroaded by a sick and corrupt military, and this will make it all better. It's the best we can do.

I feel the wind and I breathe it in and I exhale and I smile.
I remember only that you are such a remarkable person. So good to know....

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5 users have voted.

May you come to dwell in an enlightened nation that judges itself by the well-being of its people. At the very least, this is your birthright.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Pluto's Republic

she should be charged with!

There's room on the list. We have time.

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3 users have voted.

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Pluto's Republic

You can rest assured that I don't prioritize her crime of leaving a bunch of confidential data waving in the breeze over her crimes in Haiti, or Libya (or her support for the Iraq War, or or or).

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3 users have voted.

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

dkmich's picture

@Pluto's Republic

What matters is that Bernie had a choice, and he chose the party over his donors. He wasn't willing to go for the juglar, fight to the death for his donors - figuratively speaking.

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16 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

*donate to c99 *like us on Facebook *follow us on Twitter

Lily O Lady's picture

@dkmich

was given to unprincipled liars.

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12 users have voted.

"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

Hawkfish's picture

@Lily O Lady

In the eyes of many he benefited from WikiLeaks so he has to be careful what he says about it. Kind of a devil and the deep blue sea situation.

So I can understand a lot of things he needs to address, but thinking this one through is important.

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16 users have voted.

We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg

Lily O Lady's picture

@Hawkfish

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7 users have voted.

"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

@Hawkfish he will need to think it through?

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4 users have voted.
SnappleBC's picture

@Hawkfish

I'm tired of truth being tricky. It isn't. Assange is being silenced for revealing the dirty laundry of the US Govt. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure that out. The man is going to disappear into some black site hell hole. That's wrong. You don't need to be Gandhi to figure that out.

I liked the old Bernie who just spoke the truth. This new tricky Bernie looks way too much like Obama, et.al. for my tastes.

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10 users have voted.

A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

Pluto's Republic's picture

@dkmich

I am empathetic to that point.

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6 users have voted.

May you come to dwell in an enlightened nation that judges itself by the well-being of its people. At the very least, this is your birthright.

Creosote.'s picture

@dkmich

from Sanders, after having done intensive fund-raising (no thanks were sent), as well as her questioning of his foreign policy votes, convinced me that her experience was the most trustworthy. I've been too slammed with work in recent months to see what she is saying now, but I hope she responds as Corbyn did with respect to the fierce integrity of Assange's actions as a journalist.

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10 users have voted.
Pluto's Republic's picture

@Creosote.

...and the betrayal of my rights, my personal security, and the sheer moral depravity it requires from everyone — witness or accuser — makes all this more vaporous to me. Once it's invisible to me, my work will have all of my attention.

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8 users have voted.

May you come to dwell in an enlightened nation that judges itself by the well-being of its people. At the very least, this is your birthright.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Pluto's Republic

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8 users have voted.

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

Pricknick's picture

@snoopydawg
I did and remain so.

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14 users have voted.

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

gulfgal98's picture

@snoopydawg From what I have seen of Tulsi's campaign and her interviews, she has never purported to be the Peace candidate. I think a good part of that is due to the fact so many of us wish to see and vote for a Peace candidate. That is not exactly what Tulsi is although she is far better than any other candidate with the possible exception of Mike Gravel.

I posted a comment here recently that attempted to break down Tulsi's stands on war and the use of the military. Her policy stands in that regard are very nuanced. She has been very out front on what is her opposition to regime change wars and the insertion of our military into harm's way without a long and thoughtful debate.

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17 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West

"There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare." Sun Tzu

"Propaganda is one hell of a drug." Abby Martin

"politicians are cowards." Mike Gravel

@gulfgal98 being a Peace candidate with being a Pacifist candidate. No one is going to get elected on such a Kumbaya platform beyond city council in Berkeley.

I don't consider it a negative that she has war experience and currently is in the NG. All the better she has this experience in order to give her cred to speak in her own moral way about war. Not every person who puts on the uniform is a warmongering moron.

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14 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@snoopydawg

People really want to vote for a candidate that purportedly could win, so they continue to prove the Clintons right. "We'll just move the Democratic party right, and then where will they go?"

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6 users have voted.

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Exit polls not involving George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton tend to be quite accurate.
--Doug Hatlem

Eagles92's picture

@snoopydawg What happened to DemExit, indeed.

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4 users have voted.
detroitmechworks's picture

This election is COMPLETELY different. Yes we all have "Concerns" But we can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Remember, this election is more important than ANY OTHER ELECTION IN ALL OF HISTORY, and if we don't defeat Donald Trump he will personally come to your house and burn a cross in your yard.

/snark

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20 users have voted.

I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

snoopydawg's picture

@detroitmechworks

Don't forget that Ginsberg is old and has health problems. The Supreme Court is once again in play during the next election. And that was the excuse we were given for why we had to vote democratic.

"It's the Supreme Court stupid!" Remember that? If a democrat does get to appoint the next Justice it's not going to change the make up of the court though. A republican would just bury it deeper.

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15 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

detroitmechworks's picture

@snoopydawg But they won't announce it for a while. Still ain't seen any photos of her for six months. At least none that actually show her in any identifiable state. The few I can find are heavily obscured, and involve dark glasses and you can't really tell who it is...

I mean, I'm sure I could email her office for clarification, and they'd assure me that she was alive and well, and still issuing judgements from her convalescence. But then, considering these are the people who also are telling us that Russia hacked the election, I have trust issues.

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15 users have voted.

I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

lotlizard's picture

The seven deadly virtues, those ghastly little traps
Oh no, my liege, they were not meant for me
Those seven deadly virtues were made for other chaps
Who love a life of failure and ennui

Take courage—now there’s a sport
An invitation to the state of rigor mort
And purity—a noble yen
And very restful every now and then

I find humility means to be hurt
It’s not the earth the meek inherit, it’s the dirt
Honesty is fatal, it should be taboo
Diligence—a fate I would hate
If charity means giving, I give it to you
And fidelity is only for your mate

You’ll never find a virtue unstatusing my quo
Or making my Beelzebubble burst
Let others take the high road, I will take the low
I cannot wait to rush in where angels fear to go
With all those seven deadly virtues
Free and happy little me has not been cursed

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13 users have voted.
Wink's picture

And free college.
And expanding Social Security.

I really don't think he pays attention to,
nor gives a flying fuck about other issues.

He's convinced these issues will go a long way toward separating the Oligarchy from the levers of gov't. And by the look of the Oligarchy-owned M$M he's right.

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10 users have voted.

the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

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4 users have voted.

dfarrah

Wally's picture

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6 users have voted.
Unabashed Liberal's picture

Mister Beto just told David Axelrod in an interview on his program (The Axe Files, or something like that),


"We can't afford to let the perfect, be the enemy of the good."

*Sigh*

What can I say?

Dash 1

(Meant for a little comic relief, not to derail/hijack DK's thread. Wink )

Mollie

I think dogs are the most amazing creatures; they give unconditional love. For me they are the role model for being alive.
~~Gilda Radner, Comedienne

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14 users have voted.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
--George Bernard Shaw, Irish Dramatist & Socialist
"We [corporations] are the government!" Actor John Colicos (1978)

Pricknick's picture

@Unabashed Liberal
Perfect isn't good enough.

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8 users have voted.

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

@Unabashed Liberal We can't afford to let the enemy be perfect or good? Or let the good be the perfect enemy, and stay affordable? Or don't let the perfect cliche be the enemy of collaboration with the RWNJ and bipartisanship?

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9 users have voted.
Wally's picture

Confucius: "Better a diamond with a flaw than a pebble without."

Shakespeare: “Striving to better, oft we mar what's well.”

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5 users have voted.

And several of us here who did write imploring letters to Bernie in 2016, to no avail. He chose Clinton over the pleas of supporting us and our families. And that's a fact.

He left us with two horrible choices in doing so. That's why I and so many literally begged him so not to concede.

And unlike Tulsi then and also now, he showed no leadership, and still doesn't.

Without going into further ado, to those of us who knew it then, and it's has since been confirmed over and over again since his support of Clinton, with his stance on the DNC Lawsuits, Tim Canova (never heard of him) Russia-gate, Venezuela, Assange

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16 users have voted.

@Sirena Yet another black mark in the Bernie column.

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14 users have voted.

win. So it was pretty easy to cave in to HRC.
But he has changed- I think he wants to win this time, and will do anything the DNC wants.
He is no longer Bernie, the guy. He is Bernie the Democratic. Women, POC, unions, every stamped and approved liberal group is featured in his campaign somewhere.
He was asked in an interview what he would do different this time, and instead of mentioning the DNC, he basically said he would sign on for ID Pol. That sealed the deal for me. Just another Obama sellout.
Thank you for this essay-very fair and factual. This is the kind criticism that clarifies.

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16 users have voted.

chuck utzman

TULSI 2020

Centaurea's picture

I can understand why Bernie might think he has to walk carefully. I can understand why he may have thought that he couldn't openly contest Russiagate, for instance.

If so, all he had to do was focus on advancing his policy issues, and just not say anything about Russia.

But he didn't do that. Instead, he went all in with the "Russia Russia Russia! Trump is a Putin puppet!"

Bernie himself may be keeping silent on Assange, but his surrogates and staff are not. They are throwing Assange under the bus.

The American people right now are devolving into mob mentality and mass hysteria. They are allowing their minds to be captured by the propagandists in the MSM. Even many Bernie supporters are caught up in it. If you call them out on it, their response is, "But Bernie said so!"

I don't know Bernie personally, so I don't know what is in his mind and heart.

But he has to bear some responsibility for the hysterical, blood-thirsty mob that's going out of control in the US. He has helped to feed it.

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21 users have voted.

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

snoopydawg's picture

@Centaurea

Sigh

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17 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

lotlizard's picture

@snoopydawg  
in the Middle East wars was the most embarrassing thing he ever said, for me.

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/bernie-sanders-policy-backing-saudi-in...

As if the richest Arab country bombing the poorest Arab country and using starvation as a tool of war in Yemen wasn’t already “dirty” enough . . .

I mean, really. That’s Trump class bull-in-a-china-shopping, right there.

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6 users have voted.
Big Al's picture

at the risk of being further ostracized here at C99, the bastion of free thought and opinion. What's worse, Sanders not coming out and supporting Assange and all that goes with it, or Gabbard being a war hawk for the fake and insidious global war OF terror, which she herself has honestly admitted? I've been a vocal opponent of the war on terror since it started, and consider it the most evil of wars full of lies and false narratives to advance US imperialism and the Zionist quest for Greater Israel. The lies behind the global war OF terror have killed millions, displaced millions, fucked up countries where the displaced took refuge, fucked up our own country, cost trillions of dollars, has unbelievably caused the increase of the military, intelligence and security national budget to well over a trillion a year, has further cemented the military/intelligence and security complex as our rulers, and has created a true permanent police state in this country and basically planet wide. It's all based on the lies of 9/11 which Gabbard fully supports and actually credits for her becoming a military imperialist hawk.
I ask because many here are seemingly jumping on the Gabbard bandwagon and jumping off the Sanders bandwagon.

https://71republic.com/2019/01/29/tulsi-gabbard-hawk-dove-antiwar/

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13 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@Big Al

I s
was critical of Bernie last time he ran because of his foreign policy views. He never came out and said that the reasons why we haven't gotten the things he was running on was because the military budget was so damn high. Nor did he ever speak out against the drone program. The only person who seems to absolutely be against war is Gavel.

I was corrected for saying that Tulsi is the peace candidate. I should clarify that I'm not saying that, but that is how many people see her as.

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12 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@Big Al Exactly.

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7 users have voted.
gulfgal98's picture

@Big Al @Big Al Come on, Big Al. You have not been ostracized nor have I seen anyone calling for you to be ostracized.

As you probably know, at this point, I am supporting Tulsi Gabbard. I read the link you provided and it did a fair job of presenting her stands regarding war and the use of the military. However, what concerns me is that it appears to paint Gabbard as more hawkish than anyone else of either stripe who is running for President in 2020. That simply is not true.

I have posted here my own take on Gabbard's foreign policy stands, particularly as they relate to regime change wars. Her support for drone strikes is particularly concerning to me as we all learned that approximately 90% of those killed in drone attacks are not the intended targets. But I have yet to see any other candidate opposing drone strikes, which personally I believe to be an anathema.

As someone who spent several years with a Peace vigil, it has been difficult for me to reconcile my own pacifism with some of Tulsi's policies, but at this point, I still support her because I want her voice on the regime change wars and the cost of our world wide military hegemony to be a part of the public discussion. No one else is raising these issues and we need someone publicly connecting those dots for the citizens. Getting Tulsi on the debate stage is a chance to do just that.

Beyond that, I am not sure if or who I will vote for in 2020. I welcome your input and ideas for a better approach. We may not agree on the solutions, but that does not mean we want to ostracize you or anyone else for your ideas.

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15 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West

"There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare." Sun Tzu

"Propaganda is one hell of a drug." Abby Martin

"politicians are cowards." Mike Gravel

@Big Al

nearly alone or alone in some of your views, and therefore "isolated." And I've seen some posters attack you, at least as strongly as "attacks" get at Caucus99percent--and unfairly, IMO. Then again, I've seen those things happen to me as well.

I think those things happen on political message boards to anyone who doesn't keep a low profile just for the sake of getting along with everyone on every point. As for me, candidly, I see no reason to post on a political message board if I feel constrained to muffle my political views when posting on that board.

Also, I am speaking as one who didn't post or lurk here until well into 2016. So, I likely missed whatever you experienced before, say, the California primary.

If it helps any, you made me see the light on advocating for "single payer" versus "Medicare for All." And just in time to be wary of feckless Democrats who would call any turd bill "medicare for all," if they thought so doing would (a) make them personally more popular and/or (b) fool voters.

I think where you may be most isolated is not voting at all versus voting. Maybe voting is a waste of time, given how votes get counted (or not) and given the lack of real choice as to candidates. Maybe states don't even report votes to the FEC accurately. I doubt anyone ever checks that. However, I don't think that not voting is ever going to result in discrediting our system in the eyes of the world (any more than it already is discredited). Heads of state of other nations fear us and need us, whether for our foreign aid, or our military jumping in on their behalf, as we did for Kuwait. And that is especially so now that we surveill the entire world, allegedly to spot terrorist activity.

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10 users have voted.
Pluto's Republic's picture

@Big Al

...are a bit over the top, don't you think? In fact, the claim is so hyperbolic that it appears passive aggressive.

Speaking of hyperbolic, I recall being an active and uncompromising warrior against war long before you gathered yourself together. I sensed being very alone out there where others feared to tread. If anyone has a right to be ostracized, it's me.

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8 users have voted.

May you come to dwell in an enlightened nation that judges itself by the well-being of its people. At the very least, this is your birthright.

mimi's picture

@Pluto's Republic @gulfgal98 . @Pluto's Republic
I can see some differences.

If I have understood it correctly the National Guard's main purpose is to protect your own population in the of catastrophic destruction (Hurricanes, Tsunamis, Torrential rains and flooding, as well of protect the population, when a terrorist attack occurs on your own US territory done by terrorists who live in your own neighborhoods). It is a volunteer Miliz and is under the command of your state's governor. At least it was that way. I would appreciate if someone corrects or confirm me in this.

If HI's National Guard is fighting terrorists inside HI or even inside the US (I guess each state has its own National Guard) and they then are asked to search and capture terrorists, which are residing in their neighborhoods, then imo they only do what is their duty and mission, even if that means they have to engage in war-like military activities inside the US.

This is a different from the National Guard being deployed to an overseas war (like Iraq - and as I read also during the Vietnam War, where not all State governors allowed their National Guardsmen to serve in Vietnam, but others did and the Pentagon then deployed those in overseas wars to Vietnam)

Even if the US started the Iraq and Afghanistan wars with the pretext of searching for the terrorists who attacked the Twin Towers on US soil, the wars were regime change wars outside of the US territory. I would not hesitate to call people who supported those wars as war hawks and the fact that they even deployed National Guardsmen to Iraq and Afghanistan just proves their hawkishness even more.

Reading about the controversy about GWBush National Guard Service here it is obvious to me that one can be a war hawk (like GWBush) and served in the National Guard - knowing he would NOT be deployed to Vietnam out of the TX National Guard. But one can serve in the National Guard and eve accept as a volunteer to serve overseas in Iraq - like Tulsi Gabbard - and not be a war hawk.

Tulsi has quite clearly made a difference between the wars you engage in. A war in overseas countries is not the same as a war against terrorists in your own country. But you can be sure, if she had resisted to serve as National Guardsman in Iraq, she would have been accused of cowardice like GWB was.(for all the right reasons, the linked recap of GWB service just was terrible)

So for what it is worth.

It all depends how the regulations are during your time of service. There is no draft into the National Guard. There used to be a regulation that National Guardsmen are not allowed to be deployed into overseas war zones. That regulation was changed and I don't know when and who did it. Was it GWB in the early 2003 or was it done before?

In addition one has to consider that if there is a military draft during your service time, the rules of how to use and deploy National Guardsmen to overseas war zones are to be viewed specifically.

It was only under GWB that the rules had changed and all of the sudden the NG folks were used for wars in regions overseas. They were deployed like regular military, repeatedly.
Poor folks, that misery did not make individual war hawks by default. I conclude from all of what I read and heard that Gabbard is not a war hawk, just because she served in Iraq. She is the only one who tried to be specific about wars of regime change and whatever activities the National Guard is entangled in while inside the US.

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4 users have voted.

@mimi @mimi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Guard
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_defense_force

Moreover, Bush did not serve in the National Guard, which is part of the US military forces, but in the Texas Air National Guard, which is, as they say in Oz, is a horse of a different color.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Air_National_Guard

In my experience, one should not assume that one's fellow posters will always correct them if they are mistaken. For one thing, not every poster reads every post or even every thread, even if they post on it. Or, posters may be more in th emood to post and/or read, rather than correcting another poster. Or, they may not know. In any event, any poster who is interested in accuracy should probably do their own googling, rather than assume some poster will correct him or her.

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6 users have voted.
mimi's picture

@HenryAWallace
by myself. It's just so much headaches... Smile

So, what defines a war hawk then? Why is Tulsi Gabbard a war hawk? Is there anybody who is not a war hawk?

I need a nap. I don't understand why there are so many complicated sets of 'military defense forces'.

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2 users have voted.

@mimi

slightly more effort or "headaches" than not googling it. However, it doesn't involve a lot more time or effort than posting that someone will correct you if you are mistaken.

Also, thank you for saying I'm right, but I did not say that you should have googled yourself, nor would I be that presumptuous. I don't always google myself, either. My prior post stated only that my own experience does not suggest that assuming another poster will correct me if I am mistaken is a safe assumption.

I don't know how the correct view of the National Guard's alignment with the US military affects, in your thinking the definition of "war monger," but googling the definition of a "war monger" is also a fairly easy and quick proposition. And, ultimately, some subjectivity exists in the definition.

Considering (a) we are a federation of "sovereign" states comprising a sovereign nation (as the pledge of allegiance reminds some of us daily) to which the Constitution entrusts the national defense; (b) the size of this country vis a vis the size of European nations; and (c) the number of people residing in this country, having a US military and an independent state system is neither surprising nor excessively complex. Nor is it more complex than you thought: You were correct in assuming that each state may have some independent military might of its own, in addition to the US military. You were incorrect only in believing that the National Guard was that independent military force. (The name "National Guard" is a clue; but fails us when it comes to the Texas Air National Guard, which is not part of the National Guard. But, I would not venture to speak for Texas.)

And with that, I will indeed now go onto other things, whether on the internet or IRL, including to seeing about lunch.

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4 users have voted.
mimi's picture

@HenryAWallace
the problem for me is not googling something or not googling something, but to understand what I read in the results links of the google searches. I don't sometimes understand what I read on wikipedia or get tired too fast when it comes to legalese.

I still want to know why Tulsi Gabbard is considered by some to be a war hawk.

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1 user has voted.
TheOtherMaven's picture

@mimi

because at least some National Guard units were involved in the D-Day invasion (the 116th Virginia, for instance) and nobody said boo about it. Then again WWII was considered an "all-hands" emergency....

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6 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

dkmich's picture

@Big Al

If that was the goal, JtC could easily have banned you when you told me to "fuck off", a clear violation of the only rule we have. What is being rejected is the insistent tone/framing in some of your comments that people here reflect your beliefs.

I ask because many here are seemingly jumping on the Gabbard bandwagon and jumping off the Sanders bandwagon.

Some people want to vote. The primary is coming up, and they are looking for a candidate. There is nothing wrong with that. If Warren, Gabbard or Sanders are still on the ticket and make the general, fat chance, I would vote for one of them as an alternative to Trump. If it isn't one of them, I will vote Green. I feel my vote is my voice, and I will not be silenced. I know you don't agree and that's ok.

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10 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

*donate to c99 *like us on Facebook *follow us on Twitter

Cassiodorus's picture

@Big Al at the next c99% meetup!

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7 users have voted.

"Centrist/mainstream Democrats are counterrevolutionary stooges in a time when revolution is more needed than at any time in history." - Christopher Cox

Big Al's picture

@Cassiodorus Hear ya Cass.

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5 users have voted.
Cassiodorus's picture

@Big Al Granma put together the February 10th one, except people were disinclined to show up because the weather was dreadful, and now Granma is dealing with a situation. The last one, at the end of last month, was the doing of Detroitmechworks and Shahryar. Perhaps it's your turn?

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1 user has voted.

"Centrist/mainstream Democrats are counterrevolutionary stooges in a time when revolution is more needed than at any time in history." - Christopher Cox

@Big Al

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6 users have voted.

a run and whether he should run as a Democrat or as an independent. At that time, I thought that he would never win. I'd been watching and listening to the Hillary ramp up since before Obama's 2012 re-election. And, while I was not "ready for Hillary,: I was 100% certain that the Democratic PTB was.

However, I donated to Bernie's temporary website--the one that went up before his actual campaign website--as soon as it went up. The reason that I began donating, though I was sure he would lose was that I wanted to do what I could to help him get his message out. However a lot of things about his campaign were bewildering, even on that level.

I bought Sanders stuff from WordPress because his website had no store for quite some time. By the time the store "opened," I had spent all I was going to spend on Sanders stuff, but he didn't get a penny of it. Additionally, no pamphlets were ready for people who were excited about his announcement to distribute. No marching orders. "You decide how you want to help Bernie win." Cool, except "you" weren't campaign experts and maybe could have used a few non-binding suggestions, at a minimum. Also, his campaign never delivered campaign materials to state Democratic offices. Regardless of how it got there, Hillary's stuff was at the state offices; Bernie's was not. No pamphlets, buttons, campaign stickers, etc. I got ONE free bumper sticker free at some point, but had to buy buttons and bumper to hand out to people on the street, along with pamphlets my friends and I had prepared and printed out ourselves.

People stood on line outside his rallies for hours, but no one used that time to distribute campaign materials or make sure the people on line--mostly young--were registered to vote, knew whether to vote where their parents lived or where they went to college, knew about absentee ballots, etc. Not even a hand out about this stuff or about Bernie's history and "selling points" that they could read while they waited on line.

After he lost, the NYT published an article saying that Bernie never entered the race to win it, only to get his message out. And, because of what had frustrated me when I tried to do my best for him as soon as he announced, that rang true.

Then there were all the fundraising emails after Super Tuesday, saying he still could win, then saying he still had a "narrow path to victory," but never explaining what that path was, then saying he'd use the donations to take it to the convention.

Had all the above come from another politician, I might have shrugged. But this was one I still trusted, even after I believed that Obama had made me cynical, even perhaps too cynical.

This time, I've made two relatively small donations to Sanders' campaign and probably will not make more--we'll see-- done no fundraising, done no volunteering. As I've posted, I will vote for him or Tulsi in the primary and Green in the general. I don't think he will win the primary because I have deja vu: As yet, I've seen nothing being done differently than in 2014-16.

Sure, he's better known now. On the other hand, some of his prior base has gone off him, as I see on this board; and the Republicans I see posting online that they were for him over Trump in 2016 now are full bore on Trump and contemptuous of Bernie for what they see as weakness as to the DNC and Hillary. And, he is four years older now. So, he may do better this time than last time, or he may do the same or worse. I have no sense yet of how that will go.

Again, my own votes will be strategic. If, when my state's primary nears, polls show Bernie as close to winning my state, I will vote for Bernie as preferable to Biden, Beto or whoever is the front runner by then. Otherwise I will vote for Tulsi, who is my favorite candidate this time around, but hasn't a prayer of winning the nomination, IMO. And, in the general, when my state's electoral votes will go to the Democratic nominee, even if the nominee is Godzilla, I will vote Green, in hopes of helping Greens get on the ballot next time without having to go through a bunch of "bi-partisan" hoops.

Regardless of how anyone else votes, I urge having a voting strategy, depending on whether your state is red, blue or purple. And, if your state isn't even arguably purple, please consider voting Green for ballot access, if nothing else. Voting Green also gets you on record as being left of Democrats, which I see as important for me and my vote.

Write ins MAY get reported in mass media as write ins, but they don't list everyone who got a write in vote. In fact, I've never noticed msm even mentioning the number of write in votes--and that includes the Bernie or Bust write in votes of 2016, when I was still paying relatively close attention to the msm. So, speaking only for myself, I'll write in only when leaving something blank or voting for the Democrat or the Republican is my only alternative to writing in.

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dkmich's picture

@HenryAWallace

In 2014, the only thing I asked is that he stay out unless he was in it to win it. I didn't want to invest in the race emotionally or financially for some philosophical exercise. He was asked this question over and over on Fridays with Bernie, Thom Hartmann Show. Bernie always said he wouldn't enter the race unless he thought he could win. After he entered, he said: "I'm in it to win it". I believed him. He lied. Let's start there on the path to disillusion. If only we could add Bernie, Tulsi, and Warren into a bowl and stir vigorously. That would be my ideal candidate.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

*donate to c99 *like us on Facebook *follow us on Twitter

@dkmich

let Warren anywhere near my political pot, but I might thrown in Gravel. (Or not--I can't say I've researched him enough to know.)

However, in the end, I will vote, though I cannot justify that position any more than I can justify not voting; and I do recognize that no politician is perfect or even in total agreement with me. Hell, sometimes I'm not even in total agreement with me, or just too confused to know exactly where I stand.

And, also in the end, I recognize that, much as I have to compromise about if I vote and for whom I vote, politicians have to compromise about their positions, unless they are, like Green nominees for President in recent years, content to put their time, energy, money and reputations on the line, only to be certain to lose every election and even get accused of collaborating with the enemy (or a perceived enemy), as Jill Stein and Bernie both have been.

Crappy systems present only difficult choices. (I actually replaced "hard" with "difficult" so as not to appear to be echoing Hillary's book title because I'm not lying about what is a hard choice and what is not or why I voted for the Iraq War.)

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Wally's picture

I essentially agree with you, Henry A. Wallace.

It's the way I've pretty much always voted.

This year I feel a bit differently, though.

Bernie will be my last vote in a presidential election (unless he gets elected, but maybe even then).

And not because I anticipate biting the dust.

I just think that after 2020, there won't be any hope for political change, expecially given the context of the 12 year window anticipated by scientists during which we have the time left to combat climate change. And I just read something about Trump setting the legal basis for war with Iran. So, Doomsday Clock keeps ticking.

Right now, the only viable hope as evidenced by the polling numbers, a critical mass of support, and the time we have left is Bernie, however human he surely is.

Some folks seem to be banking on the imminent collapse of capitalism but I've seen time and time and time and time again how resilient it is, how it coopts people, how it bullies people, how it fools people, how it divides people, how it sets the left against itself, how hegemonic and dominant it is.

But heh, celebrate socialist Albania! Land of the true socialist paradise!

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TheOtherMaven's picture

@Wally

Land of the brave! and! free! (Marx Brothers, Duck Soup)

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Wally's picture

@TheOtherMaven

Only by following the perfect vision and praxis of the eternally glorious Enver Hoxha can we stand up to the cowards and attain peace, justice, and freedom.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

@Wally

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4 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Wally's picture

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TheOtherMaven's picture

@Wally

no matter how ridiculous they get. Something instructive there about mass hysteria....

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2 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Wally's picture

@TheOtherMaven

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lotlizard's picture

@Wally  
in Amsterdam is actually a refugee from Albania — what she said surprised us.

She said that her family’s experience was that Hoxha was good. According to her, since Hoxha fell, Albania is being run by mafias, each one worse than the next. Kidnapping and disappearing people, even children; sex trafficking; selling organs — all sorts of horrors became normal after Hoxha fell.

So you never know.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

@lotlizard

No one wants to mess with the Biggest Baddest Boss.

That this is neither a good nor a healthy thing is a different argument.

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2 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

lotlizard's picture

@TheOtherMaven  
In both situations, a new, wide-open system and legal regime of “free enterprise” moved in and took over, bringing a flood of capital (and carpetbaggers) from outside and far away.

As in “The Music Man” musical, scam artists of all sorts also descended, to feast on a fresh crop of inexperienced rubes.

I saw it in Hawaii and now, even thirty years after the fall of the Wall, I see it playing out here in former East Germany.

The “rule of law” — and the ins and outs of contractual fine print — in the new, wide-open, free-wheeling, free-enterprise, free-market system . . .

Fact is, one of the more painful things for ordinary people was learning the hard way just how much, in the new system, the law actually favors shady operators, rip-off schemes, and exploitative arrangements of all kinds.

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mimi's picture

@lotlizard @lotlizard
not having experienced the life in Germany for the last 37 years in person. Now I learned it in the last two years. And It is quite a shock, if I compare it to the Germany of the sixties and early seventies.
I wished I had known more. It didn't cross over the Atlantic from Germany to the US for me. That too made me look now as to how one could have done better for the average viewer on German TV about issues relating to the US and better on US TV for issues relating to Germany for the average US viewer.

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lotlizard's picture

@TheOtherMaven  
Oh, goodness, no, she said — that’s when she told us what she told us as an explanation.

Basically, she said she avoided other Albanian refugees like the plague because as far as she was concerned most of them were not only themselves involved with crime in cahoots with mafias back home; the danger was, if they were given a chance to get any kind of foot in the door, they would pressure and recruit her and her children and force them to pay into the gang and join in anti-social and criminal goings-on in the Netherlands.

It sounded like the Hmong in the Clint Eastwood movie Gran Torino.

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