Something to consider

This is only one perspective from a collection of doctors in New Zealand who I think have some compelling positions on health and covid. It is from New Zealand Doctors Speaking Out With Science

https://nzdsos.com/2021/08/31/the-cost-of-fear/

I will continue to explore what they have to say.

Be well everyone, and follow your heart as well as anything else. Feel confident in whatever you choose for yourself.

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Raggedy Ann's picture

janisb. Thank you.

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

TheOtherMaven's picture

Alternate link, no malware: https://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/article/undoctored/nz-doctors-sign-statement-...

Note, though, article is from almost a year ago, not current information.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

CB's picture

@TheOtherMaven
I have good viral protection on my computers and the site passes. I suggest you white list this site (if you can). They have designed the site to protect against malfeasance.

You can also try the following site. It will give you an understanding of what they are speaking about:
https://kti.org.nz/?p=361

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CB's picture

@TheOtherMaven

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CB's picture

Thank you for posting!

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Dawn's Meta's picture

but encouraged.

Answers to those questions should be freely given and clearly stated.

And if new data or research results point in another direction changes should be explained and then made.

Even if everything about the new SARS-CoV-2 infection was easily understood, and the injections were no more harmful than let's say SmallPox or Tetanus, the intensity of the let's vaccinate everyone and encouraging social and cultural division, is frightening to many.

I can't quite see how this is going to play out. NPR had a brief report on a new 'variant of concern' (mu?) that is not reacting to the current injections.

We shall see.

Thank you Janis.

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A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.

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enhydra lutris's picture

the article begins by telling us that fear is a horrible thing and specifically fear of the pandemic, but segues into trying to gin up fear of the vaccines. Not that consistency is required in literature or in life itself, but ... .

There are about two paragraphs in there which discuss CARM and their idea that all events reported to CARM must be treated as if caused by the vaccines unless proven otherwise. It appears that the CRM form can be completed by Drs, patients, or others reporting on behalf of patients. That may be a testing protocol, but relying upon proving a negative in order to get realistic data is not logically supportable, IMHO. "My kid got the shot and 3 days later (immediately after a 3 mile run) felt dizzy, fell down and broke his clavicle", input into CARM by a parent must be treated as establishing as a fact that the vaccine, in and of itself, can make one dizzy enough to fall down seems to be pushing it. And why?

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

@enhydra lutris from the swine flu got it taken off the market. There was no question about VAERS being unreliable by the FDA.
But now, they are?
Being scared into taking the vaccine is ok, but showing why one might be cautious (or afraid) about the current vaccination is not ok?
I appreciate being shown all the information that can be found that has been labeled "misinformation" and censored. I did not elect anyone to tell me what information I am permitted to receive. I did not give anyone permission to pat me on the head, tell me "Don't worry your little head about this."
I do not appreciate the patronizing by the government. They have many programs in effect that are cruel, idiotic, and rise to the level of war crimes. They seldom get anything right. The handling of the pandemic is right in line with their customary play to the 1%.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

enhydra lutris's picture

@on the cusp @on the cusp

that any and every assertion of a negative effect of the vaccine must be taken as absolutely caused by the vaccine unless Proven not to be. That's a logical fallacy so things like "2 weeks after being vaccinated my husband became suicidal and shot himself" is unquestionably proof that the vaccine CAN cause suicide, even if, for example, said husband had severe PTSD and had just lost the family's life savings and home through a leveraged play in the options market.

It has nothing to do with the FDA or anything they may or may not be saying. I know nothing about the 50 swine flu vaccine deaths, but it is unlikely that they included somebody who died of lung or colon cancer a week or so after vaccination, whereas the statement in italics would absolutely treat such a death as being caused by the vaccine.

I have no problem with warning people of possible threats, I just always find it suspicious when somebody tries to shame and belittle people for fearing x and then turns around and tries to get them to fear y. "It is crazy and stupid to fear neo-nazis, the klan and the proudboys, that's all propaganda, but you should be really, really terrified of socialists, antifa and brown people", for example.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

@enhydra lutris And time, place, circumstance, such as you describe, are extremely easy to prove. You are not proving a negative, you are proving a stand alone cause. Proving your positive.
Medical records indicate much more than "received a vaccine". They, too, show deficits, such as no proof of suicide a week later.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Or yesterday. It is anti-masking unscientific and potentially dangerous advice. In light of the numbers of children being hospitalized (now 24%) of cases and the rise in deaths etc. I would hope that people would start to realize that reproducing articles like this is less than helpful.

Policies that the Government should prioritise or review are:

Adequate resourcing of high-quality infection control and quality care in rest homes and hospitals to prevent the spread of covid-19 to vulnerable people.
Abandon the use of lockdowns to contain the virus. Strong evidence now indicates that these measures are disastrous economically and do little to contain viral spread.
Review the requirement for managed quarantine and compulsory detention for both community and hospital cases in the light of the updated lower fatality risk of the virus. This measure leads to social isolation and undue mental distress.
Further limits on border travel should be urgently reviewed in the light of a cost-benefit analysis.
Avoid any measures that lead to social isolation in the response to contain the virus.
Review the requirement for compulsory diagnostic tests in the light of the lower fatality rate of the virus. We believe that patients should continue to have the right to refuse medical tests, as they do for other procedures, and that the public health risk from this virus does not warrant these rights being superseded.
Abandon the requirement to wear masks on public transport. We believe that the best epidemiological evidence available does not support mask wearing to reduce the risk of respiratory virus transmission.
We believe that the doctor-patient relationship should be safe-guarded, along with the ability for doctors to see patients in-person rather than online. Online patient consultations detract from the quality of the doctor-patient relationship and raise the risk of mis-diagnosis.

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

Raggedy Ann's picture

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

@Raggedy Ann is the one that Dr. Campbell used to raise the question of Ivermectin. The study only had 89 people in it and has not, to my investigations, been peer reviewed or scientifically validated by other larger clinical trials.

In the meantime, the promotion of this medication for use to treat or prevent Covid 19 by thousands of people online has caused a rush of use of the animal version and/or people begging doctors for prescriptions. This had led to some numbers of poisonings being reported in various states in the US and elsewhere.

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

Lookout's picture

@Fishtroller 02

This had led to some numbers of poisonings being reported in various states in the US and elsewhere.

I saw one mention of someone in MS, but that is all...and that was just popular press.

just did a search and found this...
The CDC shared two examples :

An adult drank an injectable ivermectin formulation intended for use in cattle in an attempt to prevent COVID-19 infection. This patient presented to a hospital with confusion, drowsiness, visual hallucinations, tachypnea, and tremors. The patient recovered after being hospitalized for nine days.
An adult patient presented with altered mental status after taking ivermectin tablets of unknown strength purchased on the internet. The patient reportedly took five tablets a day for five days to treat COVID-19. The patient was disoriented and had difficulty answering questions and following commands. Symptoms improved with discontinuation of ivermectin after hospital admission.

You claim there's no evidence of IVM effectiveness. Many here have provided you with copious evidence of its efficacy. Let me add one more.
https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/SUMMARY-OF-TH...

So you can claim all those tests and experiments are faked or whatever, but you can't continue saying there are no studies.

Be careful who you accuse of spreading false information.

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

@Lookout

I looked this up because my local paper had an article about poisonings..

In 2020 there was one report of Ivermectin poisoning. This year 13 so far... 75% from taking farm animal version and 25% from taking doctor prescribed IVM.

also https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/08/30/fact-check-590-...

https://www.news4jax.com/health/2021/08/26/poison-control-in-2-states-fi...

https://www.4029tv.com/article/arkansas-poison-ivermectin/37386224#

https://www.kcci.com/article/iowa-poison-control-warning-ivermectin-covi...

https://upnorthnewswi.com/2021/08/31/17-wisconsinites-have-had-ivermecti...

https://www.8newsnow.com/i-team/i-team-nevada-poison-calls-increase-for-...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/use-of-antiparasitic-drug-ivermectin-agains...

I didn't accuse anyone of spreading false information... just incomplete information, often unscientific claims etc. There are no large (I mean large in numbers) long term clinical trials that have tested Ivermectin for treating Covid. There are small trials here and there. There are anecdotal stories by the hundreds. Nothing peer reviewed by other scientists not involved in the issue.... just You Tube videos galore.

Then there is this type of article, which I have now seen a couple of times in other places about other studies.... this one actually had 400 people in it, which is a lot more legit than the 89 people in the study in Israel that everyone is posting about and John Campbell referred to...
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/03/ivermectin-doesnt-sp...
Or, there are studies that people have relied on that have been withdrawn for one reason or another.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/16/huge-study-supporting-iv...

All of this only shows that people are promoting a treatment that has a very LONG way to go before it can be considered seriously.

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

CB's picture

@Fishtroller 02
being done on invermectin around the world. Keep in mind that NO big pharma will do these studies. It would put a definite crimp in their global sales. Therefore these studies are being done by doctors or other individuals independently. The MSM will try to discourage, demean or ignore them. You should already know that the MSM is not a reliable source for ANYTHING that goes against the vested corporate interests in our society.

COVID-19 early treatment: real-time analysis of 877 studies
* All studies * Early treatment * Mortality * Early treatment mortality * Recent studies *

Analysis of the efficacy of early treatments for COVID-19. Treatments do not replace vaccines and other measures. All practical, effective, and safe means should be used. Elimination of COVID-19 is a race against viral evolution. No treatment, vaccine, or intervention is 100% available and effective for all current and future variants. Denying the efficacy of any method increases the risk of COVID-19 becoming endemic; and increases mortality, morbidity, and collateral damage.

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@CB

is being hidden by the mainstream media and big pharma? If there are hundreds and thousands of studies being done, and you are able to find out about them, then there is no censorship occurring. And why don't you respond when people like me post studies that have shown it's ineffective?

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

TheOtherMaven's picture

@Fishtroller 02

between publication in low-circulation medical journals which must be sought out and/or subscribed to, and coverage by the Mainstream Media.

That which is not worth the trouble to censor, will escape censorship. And also public awareness.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

CB's picture

@Fishtroller 02
Some of these were mentioned in the numerous videos I posted. It is obvious that you didn't view them.

https://caucus99percent.com/comment/541743#comment-541743

This is good for you to understand how ivermectin works and why it is beneficial to help alleviate the symptoms and progression of disease from COVID-19. He references several studies. The problem is that the drug companies have ZERO interest in doing these studies which can cost considerable amounts of money.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk7KNBak-i0&t=400s]

I can lead you to water but I can't force you to drink.

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CB's picture

@Fishtroller 02
as a prophylaxis for COVID-19 (272 studies) as shown by the National Library of Medicine

In addition there are ongoing clinical trial studies at the US National Library of Medicine - 75 studies - Clinical studies related to COVID-19 & Ivermectin

If that is not enough here are 1,542 more studies.

If you want we can go to Europe and get a thousand more.

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@CB

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

TheOtherMaven's picture

@Fishtroller 02

"LALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

You really are not giving the rest of us much reason to believe you, when you state that you have made up your mind already and nothing will change it.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

@TheOtherMaven

that I offered in a post when it's easily seen by scrolling up?

As for having my mind made up.... I have posted in comments that I would change my mind about IVM if and when I saw large legitimate studies on its usage for covid 19 that ticks all the boxes scientifically and with thorough peer review. While there have been tons of posts on here and links to things related to IVM, a good bit of it is not eligible in that regard. AND when I post studies done that have shown its ineffectiveness, or that studies posted have been dropped or discontinued for lack of scientific rigor, well, the LALALALA fingers in ears rings loudly.

I really don't care if you believe me. There seems to be little care in the conversations I am seeing about people getting poisoned by IVM because they are reading all this hype on it, or avoiding getting vaccinated out of fear or confusion about online hyping or that pediatric wards are filling up because kids under 12 can't get the vaccine. NO, it's more important to to prove a point about Ivermectin. Dr. Malone is a good example. This man claims he invented the mRNA so that he can turn around and warn people about its dangers...dangers that have been proven to be fabricated regarding the spike proteins. He has done more damage to science than many people put together, and he is allowed to continue to post this stuff online despite the fact that the vaccines have proven over and over again to help people avoid death and long term hospitalization. I posted an article about this... all the stats from the UK of 1.2 million people demonstrating the successes of the mRNA vaccines in direct response to you, and what did I get? Crickets.

I am not a proponent of Big Pharma or our medical system as it is now. I don't take any prescription drugs at age 70 but I do have a big bag of supplements. I don't get the winter flu shots, or the shingles shots etc. because I weigh the side effects, effectiveness, etc. I also did not come quickly to the Covid shot, but I did realize that we are, as a whole, in a lot of trouble, and I wanted to be informed and err on the side of the public good. So I got the Moderna shots after doing a lot of looking into the whole mRNA technology. I applied that exercise also to Ivermectin.
So for you to finger point at me as if I have nothing to offer to the conversation because I don't subscribe to IVM as a treatment is pretty disappointing. And that's all I'll say on that.

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

CB's picture

@Fishtroller 02
You're the one complaining about lack of sources so I'm going to give one in it's entirety as you are not capable of opening links.

In case you don't know, Dr Malone has a vested interest in "long haul" Covid. He was previously vaccinated. That is why he has been concerned with these 'gene therapy' vaccines.

Be aware of SARS-CoV-2 spike protein: There is more than meets the eye

Abstract

The COVID-19 pandemic necessitated the rapid production of vaccines aimed at the production of neutralizing antibodies against the COVID-19 spike protein required for the corona virus binding to target cells. The best well-known vaccines have utilized either mRNA or an adenovirus vector to direct human cells to produce the spike protein against which the body produces mostly neutralizing antibodies. However, recent reports have raised some skepticism as to the biologic actions of the spike protein and the types of antibodies produced. One paper reported that certain antibodies in the blood of infected patients appear to change the shape of the spike protein so as to make it more likely to bind to cells, while other papers showed that the spike protein by itself (without being part of the corona virus) can damage endothelial cells and disrupt the blood-brain barrier. These findings may be even more relevant to the pathogenesis of long-COVID syndrome that may affect as many as 50% of those infected with SARS-CoV-2. In COVID-19, a response to oxidative stress is required by increasing anti-oxidant enzymes. In this regard, it is known that polyphenols are natural anti-oxidants with multiple health effects. Hence, there are even more reasons to intervene with the use of anti-oxidant compounds, such as luteolin, in addition to available vaccines and anti-inflammatory drugs to prevent the harmful actions of the spike protein.

By the way, Dr Malone did discover the actual mechanism by which ALL the mRNA vaccines are based upon. It was by coating a section of RNA or DNA with a special lipid such that it could be taken up by a cell and then use the cell's 'machinery' such as the ribosomes to actually manufacture the protein that the specific genes had been encoded for. Keep in mind that this was NOT the actual protein but the nucleotide sequence that encoded for the protein.

One of the proteins he coded for was luciferase because he could detect the light emitted for up to several weeks and know he had succeeded. In fact, Moderna and the other vaccine manufacturers have used this very same process in their current development of the vaccines to check on how the vaccine was integrating and performing within the body. They didn't use it in the final vaccine so don't worry. You won't glow in the dark after getting the vaccination.

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snoopydawg's picture

People are saying that the information on the VAERS website isn’t accurate because anyone can post to it. But all it’s supposed to do is be a warning that something is going wrong and during the swine flu 'epidemic' there were 50 reported deaths from the vaccine and they were stopped because of it.

Here is the most recent update on the website;

38CC2891-D2C5-4926-8E94-D8026FEE50FE.jpeg

This is one hell of a warning sign that something is going wrong. It’s not just the number of deaths, it’s also the number of injuries from them and guess what? Anyone who has to get treatment is on the hook for the bills because big pharma made sure that they aren’t. With Pfizer saying that they have full authorization they should now be held accountable for whatever happens, but congress made sure that there is a limit on how much they can pay out.

If people who complain about the unvaxxed won’t even consider that vaccines can cause problems why should they be taken seriously? One girl who was in the trial was paralyzed, but she’s on the hook for paying the bills. Can’t afford to pay? Well try a go fund me and good luck. It’s beyond comprehension that we don’t have single payer here and especially during the epidemic. Biden can do it because precedent has already been sit with the Libby, MT decision that Obama made.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

CB's picture

@snoopydawg
despite the new vaccinations since about July 20, 2021.

COVID-19 vaccinations vs. new COVID-19 deaths, Dec 2, 2020 to Aug 31, 2021 - United States

Something has gone side-ways with the vaccinations..

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TheOtherMaven's picture

@CB

no other form of prevention/treatment has been permitted, and many alternatives have been viciously demonized?

That couldn't have anything to do with it...could it?

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@TheOtherMaven
actually doing what they are supposed to do... helping people avoid a harsh case of the disease.
But hey what does a study in the UK of 1-2 million people prove-right?

Large-scale study shows benefits of COVID vaccines in breakthrough cases
A large-scale study conducted in the UK between December 2020 and July 2021 found that fully vaccinated adults are at a much lower risk of severe illness, hospitalization and long-haul COVID.

The study, which was published in The Lancet Infectious Diseases journal, used data from more than 1.2 million partially and fully vaccinated adults. Fourteen days or more after the first dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech, Oxford-AstraZeneca or Moderna vaccines, just 0.5% reported a breakthrough infection. After the second dose, that number dropped to fewer than 0.2%.

“We are at a critical point in the pandemic as we see cases rising worldwide due to the delta variant. Breakthrough infections are expected and don’t diminish the fact that these vaccines are doing exactly what they were designed to do — save lives and prevent serious illness," study co-lead author Dr. Claire Steves said.

Among those who did have a breakthrough infection, the chance of being asymptomatic increased 63% after a first dose of the vaccine, and 94% after the second dose. Healthy adults over 60 saw about half the risk of breakthrough infections as frail older adults or older adults with underlying conditions.

Additionally, the odds of experiencing so-called "long-haul" COVID, or symptoms after 28 days of infection, dropped by 50% after two vaccine doses.

"Our findings highlight the crucial role vaccines play in larger efforts to prevent COVID-19 infections, which should still include other personal protective measures such as mask-wearing, frequent testing and social distancing,” Steves said.

--Jeanine Santucci, USA TODAY

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

janis b's picture

and uncertain climate, when anything is possible? Having spent time over 30 years in the darkroom I know that the range of shades and possibilities are infinite. I think that we are all trying to expose for ourselves, alone in the dark, what feels like the right moment to lift the image out of the developer. Only, the process of this developing virus takes longer consideration. If you give 10 people the same negative to print you will end up with 10 different images. I hope we all find one that satisfies ourselves and contributes to something positive.

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enhydra lutris's picture

@janis b

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

TheOtherMaven's picture

@janis b

There's nothing to find and no reason to look. Blum 3

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