Accountability For Trump

That is the buzzword of the hour, "accountability." Personally, I think the idea of impeaching a guy who is not President is too silly to take seriously, and I do not take it seriously. Nevertheless, on this and other boards, I have seen a lot of distress about the acquittal of the Orange Fartcloud. A classic example came from a relative who texted this to me as the votes were counted:
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Republican pussies and weenies have set an unachievable bar for ever impleaching and removing a President. God be with us. [Followed by a bunch of emoticons.]

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Aside from the illogic of my nephew's analysis of this as a precedent, uh, he also missed the detail that Trump is not POTUS. The only consequence of a "conviction" would be to bar Trump from future office -- which is a punishment not of the Orange Fartclound, but punishment of the millions of benighted citizens of this Republic who would consider voting for Trump in some future election.

Funny way to defend Democracy, denying people the right to vote for who they want to vote for.

If anybody really cares about Accountability, the Democrats now control the Federal Government and as of now Biden is the Chief of State and in charge of the Department of Justice and the FBI. If anybody seriously believes that Trump and his uncounted number of insurrectionists were seriously intending to overthrow the United States Government, but failed in the attempt, the means for holding Trump accountable for it are in the hands of Joe Biden.

Any criticism of the Republican Senators for not doing their "duty" to hold Donald J. Trump accountable as of right now must apply with identical fervor to Sleepy Joe for giving him a pass.
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Of course there will be no such Federal criminal case brought against Trump for the obvious reason that there is no case whatsoever that Trump or his gang of knuckleheads committed "insurrection." To claim so is to murder the English language in the service of Big Brother.

Although I supported their efforts, I saw the Black Lives Matter riots in Los Angeles last May and June by looking out my front window. I saw thousands of people take over the streets and destroy hundreds -- literally hundreds -- of storefront windows, broken for the purpose of theft. Most of those stores are still boarded up today. I saw police cars on fire and I saw people running dipsey dumpsters full tilt toward police lines. All of that was illegal, all of it politically enflamed, all of it intended to overturn existing legal practices -- but it was not any more insurrection than the disruptions in Washington on January 6.

I do not rule out the possibility that the humiliation of Trump might yet include a criminal prosecution. He certainly deserves to be in jail as a war criminal and an embezzler. His lawyer went to prison for hijacking money from Trumps's political campaign chest to pay off ex-girlfriends.

I would have supported impeachment and removal for his preposterous disposition alone -- his acting like a grown up and well-to-do Eddie Haskell has done serious damage to our country's standing in the world.

But the Dems will not touch him for any of that.
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Some people still refuse to wrap their minds around the fundamental fraudulence of our politics.

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earthling1's picture

A couple of things need to be pointed out.
1. The Democrats are not in control of the Federal Government. They are dutiful puppets of the ruling junta.
2. Biden is not in charge of the DOJ or the FBI. The last POTUS was obviously not in control of either.
3. Although you made no reference to it, I will gp ahead and add, he is CinC in name only, as we found out with the previous POTUS, the Pentagon does as it pleases.
If there are any doubts that the Intelligence Community is in complete control of America, Shumer said it best: "they have six ways to Sunday of getting back at you."
We can turn this to our advantage though. But we will have to grow some balls.
We can send Biden a message to give the people something more than crumbs ( end the endless wars, back off Russia, China, Iran, Venezuela, close 799 foreign military bases, Medicare4all, repeal the Patriot Act, re-impose Glass Steagle Act, term limits, etc.) or we will vote with the Republicans in 2024 to re-elect Trump.
Even if we don't actually do it, at least scare the bejesus out of them.
Write a letter, tweet, email, or call the White House line and threaten, yes, threaten to put Trump back in.
Personally speaking, Trump's antiwar stance is preferable to the MIC puppetry of Biden.
IMHO

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Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

lotlizard's picture

@earthling1  
with bad side effects that unfortunately was or is the only thing allowed on the market besides various brands, flavors, and colors of placebo.

With everyone else totally set in their roles and playing their predictable part in the neocon-neolib TINA script (TINA = “There Is No Alternative”—what the voters think or want is irrelevant), the right-wing populist AfD (“Alternative for Germany”) barged onto the scene here as the only thing that seemed to “move the needle,” that is, challenge the establishment’s (often unspoken) fixed assumptions. This also then visibly got the unseen global power players’ attention as something to worry about because of not yet fully being under their control.

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1. Yes, he isn't POTUS anymore. But if we shouldn't/can't impeach him after he's left office, then the POTUS in the future has a window of several months at the end of their term for infinite lawbreaking.

2. As for punishment, don'tcha think that a candidate that doesn't respect democracy in any way should be barred from the highest office?
Otherwise there are no real protections in the Constitution (short of violence).

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CS in AZ's picture

@gjohnsit

The "trial" was held after he left office, but he was impeached as a sitting POTUS.

It's funny, people complained that the House moved too fast, then others complain it was too late. They acted to impeach him while he was president because, duh, once he'd left office it would be too late!

On the other hand, I think after this latest ridiculous clown show the impeachment provision in the Constitution should just be deleted. Let's have a constitutional amendment to formally acknowledge that the POTUS is a temporary Monarch. Because it is obvious that impeachment has no teeth whatsoever in modern politics, and no POTUS will ever be convicted by the Senate, no matter what they do.

If Watergate happened today, Nixon could just laugh and claim he was framed, then go golfing and people would accept it and still support him.

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snoopydawg's picture

@CS in AZ

It's funny, people complained that the House moved too fast

Only because Pelosi got him impeached ASAP, but then she sat on walking the papers over to the senate and they decided that it could wait a bit longer. I’m seeing some republican senators saying that democrats did not make their case against Trump and showing how he was responsible for the actions of his supporters. They showed the mob violence intertwined with Trump speaking, but the times weren’t in sync. People were fighting and trying to break in while Trump hadn’t spoken yet. He’s talking and people are already fighting with cops. Republicans said that the videos were meant to play on their emotions mostly. Democrats KNEW that republicans would not convict unless they had to. If democrats had brought in witnesses and got more evidence I think it would have made it hard for McConnell to not vote to convict.

But then this farce was twofold. One not get Trump blocked from running again because they need him to for their fundraising and second it’s to keep Trump supporters riled up.

Hey anyone hear Jimmy on the 2nd amendment? Guys have to keep their guns in case the government tries to take away their freedoms. The 2nd is the only one left. But don’t plan on using it for self defense or the government will show you their bigger ones. Great point, Jimmy. I say pretty much the same thing when I m talking to someone who thinks the military is keeping their freedoms safe.

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vtcc73's picture

Who, if not trump, was President of the US on 13 January 2021? That is the date the President of the US was impeached. Last I heard trump did not cease to be president until noon on 20 January 2020. Are these "fake facts" or "fake news"?

No, they're not. The argument is that the trial should not be held as required by the US Constitution simply because the impeached president left office. This is as nonfunctional an argument as claiming you can't stand trial for an offense you were indicted for a week prior to the statute of limitations expiring simply because the trial was delayed a few weeks. It's nonsense but then a whole lot of US senators made that exact silly argument expecting the gullible, ignorant, and those with an agenda would buy it. And we wonder why the US is the center of the silly universe.

That aside, are you saying that he should not be taken to task and made to face justice for his actions because the Dems are as corrupt as trump and the Reps? I don't think that's what you intend but you're awful close to it. trump's actions just like those of the other entities, separately and together, are his own to account for in a court or courts if he is indicted. Just like he was to account for when he was impeached. Those accounts are settled by an impeachment trial in the Senate and a trial in a criminal court for criminal indictment(s). "I'm not president now!" won't flush in either venue.

Before getting too deep into the insurrection claim, let's consider that impeachment and legal charges are two very different animals. Impeachment is purely political with an air of a legal proceeding but with a constitutional basis. He was charged in the impeachment with inciting an insurrection. He has yet to be charged or indicted with inciting an insurrection in the legal arena. I have a feeling that might have a tougher burden of proof for a prosecution for insurrection in a federal court than a charge of inciting a riot in a DC criminal court. I agree that whether either is forthcoming is unknowable. I also wouldn't expect a prosecutor to loosely throw around claims of insurrection without some expectation of being able to prove it in court. In any event a criminal case will have higher standards than impeachment. A criminal case will be much more difficult to bring or prosecute in any criminal court. Unlike in the political theater of the Senate where spouted nonsense is the currency, a court requires evidence and facts. The two processes are not equivalents.

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying about whether trump should otherwise be held accountable for four years of ineptitude, malfeasance, criminality, and carnage that will require years if not decades to repair. What bothers me is that there are people who want to look forward not back. Worse, many get tied up in the "Well, the other side isn't any better!" argument. That's completely irrelevant to anything. Yet, I keep seeing it as some form of immense wisdom to justify nonsensical positions.

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"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."

snoopydawg's picture

Republican pussies and weenies have set an unachievable bar for ever impleaching and removing a President. God be with us. [Followed by a bunch of emoticons.]

I don’t remember Clinton’s many crimes, but I do remember Bush’s. The Iraq war, torture and the deaths of millions since. Obama murdered 2 Americans without due process and not much outrage. Imagine if Trump had done...fck wait he did. He got the sister murdered by sending in our terroristic goon squads.

Presidents have been getting stronger and more bold in breaking laws and norms, but it took Trump being president to show the world that he is not the only president that has done horrible things. How many people are dead since the ACA became law of the land because they could no longer afford to buy insurance or see their doctor because their deductible reset every January. Add every congress that has refused to give single payer and gutted the social programs in order to justify to themselves that it’s acceptable to give rich people more of the poor people’s money.

But yeah Trump was the worst one evah. Except that he couldn’t have done most of the things without congress’s funding and acceptance of most everything he did. Notice he’s not being impeached for any of the crimes he committed. Nope. Next..

Heh..boy am I off. Presidents are also the most powerless on certain issues. Look at what the military did to Trump in Syria.

Trump: "remove the troops."

Military: "yes sir. Right away sir."

Guy: "you really gonna do that?"

Military: "hell no, but he won’t notice cuz we do it all the time and no one has yet."

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snoopydawg's picture

I don’t think that was the goal for many, but for some yes it was. But if the others that just went inside because others were inside then I don’t want them charged. Maybe some community service, but no time or money. I would have gone inside if I saw cops just watching as others peacefully made their way in.

If anybody seriously believes that Trump and his uncounted number of insurrectionists were seriously intending to overthrow the United States Government, but failed in the attempt, the means for holding Trump accountable for it are in the hands of Joe Biden.

However McConnell thinks that Trump should be held accountable and possibly criminally charged. If there is evidence for that then yes he should be. But even if it was glaring Trump will walk. You can’t set precedent for holding a United States president accountable for anything he did in office. Biden wants no part of Trump’s punishment. Even New York will settle with him on his taxes. Just watch.

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introduced on Jan 8. A simple majority was all that was required for passage. Better to "stick" a censure than fail to convict. If Democrats were wobbly on getting that majority in the Senate prior to Warnock and Ossoff being sworn in on the afternoon of Jan 20, delaying the Senate vote until then would have been necessary.

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snoopydawg's picture

@Marie

Guess it depends on what the Democrat’s goals were. Did they actually want him held accountable at the government level so that Trumpism could be nipped in the bud and he couldn’t run again? Or was it just what we saw it was? A capitulation and distraction? Congress Congress is yelling it to us that our needs do not matter. Not to them and not to their donors.

But imagine what you have to do to your brain to be at home while millions are suffering in horrible conditions all over the country and not do a gd thing about it. What level of psychopathy is that achievement?

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@snoopydawg
mental health if one attempted to figure out what the hell goes on in the minds of the DC Dems (and Pubs). Both have chugged down so much of their own Kool-Aid that sanity tends to elude them. Although given the age of a high percentage of them, forms of dementia is probably a contributing factor.

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The US Congress passed the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, The AUMF to overthrow the Iraq government for non existent WMD, and the funding of many illegal war crimes in scores of countries, starting with collective punishment of civilians with the firebombing of cities in Germany and Japan, not to mention the annihilation of population centers in North Korea. The war crime is enabled in Congress where the action is approved and funded. Why is there immunity for members of Congress, especially in the perpetration of international war crimes? Just how does that work? How does this compare with what Trump actually did and said about January 6? There are lots of things that Trump should be held accountable for, but those in Congress allowed and funded it all and pretty much agreed.

This really boils down to Congress Critters feigned outrage over desecration of their hallowed halls. Bomb the hell out of 30 million foreigners but don't you dare scratch the woodwork in Congress. I think that most of this is way over the top and feigned outrage by Democrats to damage the Republican Party. They know what is coming in 2022.

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Capitalism has always been the rule of the people by the oligarchs. You only have two choices, eliminate them or restrict their power.

lotlizard's picture

@The Wizard  
and Kafkaesque.

People talk as if the Accountability goddess sprang full-grown from the head of Zeus on January 20, 2017, at the moment Trump was sworn in. As if none of the evils perpetrated before then matter. As if all ills and faults in the American empire’s simulation of democracy arose on that day.

Everyone’s fixated on getting this one guy exorcized from the U.S. body politic, when in reality the demons possessing America are legion. I guess many are relieved that by appearing to be part of the posse, they are able to avoid scrutiny and accountability themselves. It’s like the pickpocket in the German proverb, running away from the scene of crime yelling “Stop, thief!” (while pointing at Trump).

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snoopydawg's picture

@lotlizard

History just restarted when Trump became president and became the sin eater for the United States and all of its wrongs. Biden will return to presidents walking on water.

Lovely day here. Snowed hard again all night, but now the sun is coming out, my neighbor did my drive and walks for me (I give him gas $ for his 4 wheeler that does 4 swipes of my drive)and the plows just went by... yay. Lots of fun playing in the snow with the Sam-O.

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snoopydawg's picture

@The Wizard

The war crime is enabled in Congress where the action is approved and funded.

Add in what we did to Vietnam with agent orange and of course bombs. Every vote for a member of congress that has been on board with our manifest destiny exceptionalism is a betrayal of what one stands for if they stand for peace. IMOO.

The AUMF to overthrow the Iraq government for non existent WMD, and the funding of many illegal war crimes

I recently watched as Pelosi calmly explained that she was on the gang of 8 and knew that Bush was lying about WMDs because she saw the intel and it wasn't there. Then she defended herself on not impeaching him because rethugs had just got done impeaching Clinton for lying under oath. Yeah...big reach there you effing rethugs. How about the 500,000 Iraqi kids that died horribly from our sanctions as well as many of their moms, aunts, grandmothers... because they couldn't get treatment for serious medical issues. How many died from cancer that might have been saved if they had meds for it? Or any number of other issues that caused deaths. But lying was a bit too far. Groan and face palm.

Capitalism has always been the rule of the people by the oligarchs. You only have two choices, eliminate them or restrict their power.

I wish I knew of a plan that will let us do that. But sadly I think the time for us to have put our foot down has long passed. I think that the patriot act passing was the last line we could have stopped them on from taking us into this police state, but too many were afraid after 9/11 and willingly did what Franklin advised against. We gave up our rights for safety that can never be won through elimination of them.

Well said!

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snoopydawg's picture

@The Wizard

his really boils down to Congress Critters feigned outrage over desecration of their hallowed halls. Bomb the hell out of 30 million foreigners but don't you dare scratch the woodwork in Congress. I think that most of this is way over the top and feigned outrage by Democrats to damage the Republican Party. They know what is coming in 2022.

It is so easy I don't even have to write it down. Dems want to win in 22 only have to do what is right for us, but they will not because they won't go against their donor's wishes. So instead after 2022 look forward to the GOP being in control of our government at every level. And since it seems so easy to avoid, then democrats do want the country moving further right every election. Now let's see if that will wake up any of their voters.

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CS in AZ's picture

This whole stupid idea that the elected leader of the country has any responsibility for their actions is absurd. Time to let go of that archaic notion and just be up front with the reality that the POTUS can do anything, or nothing, and it just doesn't matter.

Come on, all together now:

[video:https://youtu.be/XM4jJc8w4H0]

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