For the Sake of c99

I'll make this short.

Divisiveness was the cause of the big drop off in participation here after the 2016 election. No ifs, ands, or buts about it, I'm in a position to know. It seemed like some folks couldn't resist the urge to spike the ball in the end zone, wag fingers, vote shaming, I told you so, etc., etc..

I see the same thing shaping up again this election.

C99 survived the last bout of divisiveness but I don't know if it will survive this round. A large open discussion board can withstand a big reduction in participants, a smaller site not so much. Another reduction in member participation does not bode well for c99's future.

I ask you, please, before you click the publish button ask yourself is this post constructive or meant to be divisive.

Please do it for the sake of c99.

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43 users have voted.

Comments

gives you the key to write divisive material even if it is detrimental to the site itself.

Open discussion has its pros and cons, sometimes the cons out weigh the pros.

That becomes a conundrum for small sites that can't afford to lose members due to the policies that the site itself has set.

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26 users have voted.
enhydra lutris's picture

@JtC

Be well and have a good one

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11 users have voted.

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

@enhydra lutris
if it saves just one member from leaving this site.

Have a good one, my friend.

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15 users have voted.
mhagle's picture

. . . build up and encourage one another!

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23 users have voted.

Marilyn

"Make dirt, not war." eyo

@mhagle
let's hope so.

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10 users have voted.
TheOtherMaven's picture

that it's rubbing off on c99. Am hoping that common sense will prevail, but it's never been all that common. Sad

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24 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

@TheOtherMaven
assessment, Maven. It's sad but true.

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11 users have voted.
enhydra lutris's picture

proponent of free and open discussion and opponent of any and all censorship. That said, one needn't always say everything that one arguably could say. We need this site for our sanity and all the news, music and information that it provides, so we need to exercise a little self-control in this matter. People are getting touchier by the day, and not just about politics, it is the current situation, milieu and weltanschauung. Please keep that in mind.

Use all your well learned politesse is not bad advice these days --

Sympathy

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32 users have voted.

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

TheOtherMaven's picture

@enhydra lutris

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17 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

@enhydra lutris
with three emails this morning all denoting the issue at hand in this meta essay. All three talked of leaving c99 because of it.

Thanks again my brother.

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18 users have voted.
enhydra lutris's picture

@JtC

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14 users have voted.

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

@enhydra lutris
been tested for Covid-19?

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1 user has voted.

I'd hate to see the expression of ideas restricted because some (or many) don't like
what is being said.

We should be ok if the line is drawn at personal insults.
Can't say "what kind of ass would believe.."

This reminds me to donate.
lol

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18 users have voted.

@irishking
it would be so much easier to just have a list of rules that must be abided by, for moderation purposes anyway. But a list of rules is not me, that's not you, and that's not anyone else that frequents this site. It's not what c99 is about.

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14 users have voted.
Lookout's picture

I at least scan most of the essays, but not always all the comments.

Is it possible to anonymously air the grievances expressed, so we can make sure we are being respectful of any legitimate concern. Cause I honestly don't know what is at issue. If I've been offensive to anyone I would hope they would pm me and try to find common ground.

I'm certain the quarantine isn't helping peoples patience. I know it is getting on my nerves. But this community is a little island of rational conversation...evidence based opinions typically cushioned with tolerance (or it seems so to me).

So I want say from the other side of the spectrum how much I treasure and value C99 and all your work JtC to create and maintain the loom connecting the threads. This isn't the time to pull apart from my perspective. Maybe a good nights sleep cleared heads.

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35 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

@Lookout
I see it as do others, and I know it's become a problem when folks start pointing it out to me as well.

Divisiveness on this site was a big problem after 2016, I know this because folks told me so. We lost a lot of members because of it. Hopefully we can side step it this time.

Thanks for your input.

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11 users have voted.
mimi's picture

@Lookout
there I said it, at least here in Germany I feel it destroys more or less everything. And it is a self-inflicted condition.

Let's concentrate on growing antibodies. Nature will take care of the rest.

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5 users have voted.

Please donate to C99p so that the site can survive.

@Lookout
I'm not sure what's going on.
But I don't read all of the essays, much less all the comments here.

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16 users have voted.

@Lookout too. What "divisiveness"? Is this all about the recent post-mortem of the Bernie campaign and the nature of his virus bailout role, inspired by the very tough Stoller and Dore comments?

I too hope this site can continue to be a place where all points of view are welcome, and not just those which echo the majority pov.

Some clarification is needed on what a few people are complaining about in private.

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12 users have voted.

@wokkamile kinda need it spelled out slowly...wait! Is this about us slow kids in the back?

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13 users have voted.
Raggedy Ann's picture

there would be no need to be divisive.

Ball = we are moving to a new level of consciousness with or without Bernie or any other politician. The universe is in charge - WE ARE NOT. The universe has given us this pandemic in order to completely revise society. Keep your eye on this ball.

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26 users have voted.

"The secret of change is to focus all your energy, not on fighting the old, but on building the new." Socrates (469-399 BC)

@Raggedy Ann
you are so correct in watching that Mitch Miller bouncing ball. I wonder how many will get that Mitch Miller reference?

Thanks RA.

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18 users have voted.
Raggedy Ann's picture

@JtC
We're an older audience here, remember? We keep getting reminded of that.

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21 users have voted.

"The secret of change is to focus all your energy, not on fighting the old, but on building the new." Socrates (469-399 BC)

CB's picture

@Raggedy Ann
At least that's what my granddaughter says.

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3 users have voted.
Lookout's picture

@CB

I remember when the dead sea was just sick.

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4 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

CB's picture

@JtC
was black and white (in every sense of the word).

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7 users have voted.
mhagle's picture

@JtC

Mitch Miller!!!

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6 users have voted.

Marilyn

"Make dirt, not war." eyo

TheOtherMaven's picture

@mhagle

and under the radar. Things like a cleaned-up version of "Sweet Violets", and a song rebranded as "The Rovin' Kind" (the original name was "The Fire-Ship" and it was very raunchy). You never knew what he'd come up with - or where he found it.

Here's the chorus of the second one, maybe you recognize it:

"she had a dark and rovin' ey-e-e
And her hair hung down in ring-a-lets.
She was a nice girl, a proper girl, but
One of the rovin' kind."

(Looks like the laundering process may have started with the British folk tradition - in "The Pirate Ship" she was implied to be a pickpocket. In the original "Fire-Ship" version she was explicitly a syphilis-infested prostitute.)

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6 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Alligator Ed's picture

@TheOtherMaven Have you heard Chuck Berry's "Too pooped to pop"?

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0 users have voted.
mhagle's picture

@Raggedy Ann

I have always viewed Bernie as a "John the Baptist" = "the voice calling out in the wilderness." We are the jesus.

It is time for us to evolve.

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8 users have voted.

Marilyn

"Make dirt, not war." eyo

@Raggedy Ann If Bernie dropped dead tomorrow his ideas would still be right, and will go on with or without him. If he's a sheep dog or a rat dog the ideas are still valid. It's us that need to get to the finish line with them, somehow.

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12 users have voted.
mimi's picture

this to happen to this site. So, I will try to be a lesser dick than I was yesterday. If I continue to do that everyday I end up being an angel with a halo. Wink

These are tough times and when the going gets tough, the tough gets going. So, please go on and those who left, come back leaving the toughness behind.

When I was going through tougher times in my past life, I always told myself: This too will pass and have an end.

Now I am going to read Lookouts garden diaries. Last Sunday he had a very cute garden guy who explained how to make beds to plant vegetables. It was called 'the fit farmer'. I intend to become a fit vegetable grower. But first I have to move the huge root system an uprooted huge trunk of a tree with at least 30 inches in diameter. I think the trunk is sitting there since 12 years. It costs a fortune to remove or bury it in the ground. So far I had no courage to attack this gardening challenge. I think I will try to dig a deep hole right at the side of root system and hope that the whole thing will fall back into the ground. Wish me luck. Some things in life one has just to bury for good.

Politics? You still have an interest in politics? Not me, I am completely disinterested by now.

We will have peace with each other. There is no other way to survive these times.

Be well, all.

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11 users have voted.

Please donate to C99p so that the site can survive.

@mimi
the only real solution is to tie your hands behind your back so you can't type and turn off your electricity so your device doesn't work. Otherwise, it's a strong impulse to have to resist.

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11 users have voted.
mimi's picture

@JtC
computers. The last one standing, will stay. May be I will make a little graveyard for them in the garden, saying, "here are buried my impulsive misdeeds of my life". Rest in Peace.

It's an addiction. The only way to beat the addiction is to find a stronger drug. Or for the world lose electricity for good.

I am not going anywhere but into my grave. Rest in peace. That's all I want.

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8 users have voted.

Please donate to C99p so that the site can survive.

Alligator Ed's picture

@mimi on computers, then I would need mountains to expiate my misdeeds.

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2 users have voted.
gulfgal98's picture

and have always felt that our rule of not personally insulting each other should be enough. The more rules we have, the less real ideas and discussion will arise.

I am not sure which essays or comments would spur members to threaten leaving because I do not read all essays every day. However, I would suggest that folks here try very hard to take the personal offenses and their perception of others' personalities out of their comments and stick to comments that are topical rather than personal.

My own rule of thumb is never to respond on a personal level and to refrain from getting into back and forth negative commentary with others here beyond one reply.

Perhaps it is because I worked in a very adversarial environment for most of my career that I simply will not allow anyone to negatively define me on a message board.

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18 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West

Shahryar's picture

Minds are wonderful things and a train of thought is beautiful.

We can get all heated about our perceptions of what will bring about the change we all want.

Personally I believe the democratic process, while an excellent theory, is currently "out of service". Our attempts to win at the ballot box have been and will be fruitless because those who have seized power are the ones running "elections".

The only solution, again just my opinion, is ousting those people in some sort of revolution.

Discussing such a thing here or anywhere in print allows "them" to neutralize us so a better way to communicate would be in person.

I can picture, however, a future where microphones would pick up everything we say....maybe one in that computer or that Alexa over there.

So it'd be safer to use sign language except for that CCTV! which is already here in some countries.

Anyway, if we're using C99 to discuss ways of slightly modifying the current system then there's no point in anyone's getting hostile about someone else's suggestion about how to do so.

There! I knew I had a point when I started.

Additional bonus rant: air quality has greatly improved in a matter of weeks, this showing how much of a fraud it is when climate plans call for change by 2050. Politicians should be honest and say "my plan calls for real change so far in the future that you'll forget I ever said anything well before we get there"

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20 users have voted.

sorry to let the thoughts roll
thought it was more open here than to
apologize my way out of a comment

taking the rug out ain't being supportive
nothing against the site or admin, but have
had my ass spanked here needlessly recently

y'all do what is right by you
guess the rest of us will have to time out
until your serious discussions will once again
allow open commentary.

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3 users have voted.

May we be united and strong -- laurel

janis b's picture

What has made me uncomfortable recently is what I perceive to be an increasing polarisation. We’ve seen it before, yet to me it seems that this is exactly the time to do just the opposite. I don’t want to feel more challenged than these times already demand. I don't want to follow the direction of unnecessary fear. It makes complete sense to me, that at these extraordinarily difficult times feelings are intensified. It reminds me of times in our closest relationships when we lose ourselves in exasperation, and in the process become blinded to what what may actually be a perfectly different reality. I think everyone must have a voice, and responded to without hostility or bitterness, myself included; maybe even, with practice assimilated in a way that is positive for all. It doesn’t mean that we can’t stand by how we feel, but how we approach it is our choice. I am asking myself, “what do I wish to achieve at this moment, and for the future”.

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8 users have voted.

@janis b

It makes complete sense to me, that at these extraordinarily difficult times feelings are intensified

.

We should expect tendency toward polarisation when the pressure is on, but

how we approach it is our choice

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3 users have voted.
janis b's picture

@irishking

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2 users have voted.

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6 users have voted.

"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin