Tonight's Debate is Gonna Get Ugly

CIA Pete and Boss Bloomberg are going all out against Bernie. The other flotsam and jetsam are sure to follow with their own attacks. I'm guessing it's going to be a tough one to watch tonight without destroying a TV or computer screen. So be forewarned.

O'Brien is Bloomy's senior advisor and he's going heavy on the "Crazy Bernie" trope:

I imagine Bloomberg will also go big on Bernie being anti-Israel but I think the concentration will be on Bernie's "rape essay" and more on the "Crazy Bernie" theme so Trump can pump it up, too. Just one more goodie from O'Brien (you can look at his twitter account for all too many more):

Ah yes, CIA Pete will lead the redbaiting charge:

So if you are going to watch the debate tonight, have a favorite peace mantra ready to calm your nerves. A steady supply of nerf or similar spongey balls might be useful if you find more relief in throwing objects.

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Wally's picture

Pretty, pretty dirty:

Here's one captured by screen shot before it was deleted. Imagine the news coverage if Bernie pulled a stunt like this:

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13 users have voted.
Wally's picture

@Wally This guy takes the cake. It's great, though, that he's megaphoning Bloomberg's attack strategy before the debate tonight:

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13 users have voted.
TaZsa's picture

I will be getting the lowdown from Tim Black https://youtu.be/GcOHprDw374 and Kyle K https://youtu.be/YBwKuy0qn5U and Mike https://youtu.be/vfe8B3XFC20
among others.
Bernie is going to win and change the world.

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Wally's picture

Anderson Cooper actually defending Bernie's remarks about Cuba? Wow! I never thought I'd see the day.

And now this???? But I'll believe it only when I see it:

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ovals49's picture

When the League of Women Voters takes back the reins by hosting and moderating real debates I will enthusiastically tune in to them all.

Since the Republican-Democrat duopoly took over our debates they have become highly stage managed tabloid-worthy extravaganzas, devoid of any substantive policy debate and teeming with vacuous and salacious gotcha moments; a distraction and a complete waste of time.

No wonder we have such difficulty fielding the “well informed electorate” that a functional representative democracy requires.

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24 users have voted.

"An oligarchy of private capital cannot be effectively checked .....because under existing conditions, private capitalists inevitably control, directly or indirectly, the main sources of information."
Albert Einstein

TheOtherMaven's picture

@ovals49

The Parties didn't dump the League of Women Voters - the League of Women Voters dumped them, when they demanded too many changes and restrictions to the debate format.

The Parties aren't going to change - they like the current freestyle whack-a-mole that passes for a "debate".

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23 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

ovals49's picture

@TheOtherMaven
But part of me clings to the hope that we won’t need to tear it all down before we can rebuild. We’re all suckers when it comes to hope. Tried nihilism for a while. That didn’t feel any better than being disappointed on a regular basis.

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13 users have voted.

"An oligarchy of private capital cannot be effectively checked .....because under existing conditions, private capitalists inevitably control, directly or indirectly, the main sources of information."
Albert Einstein

Alligator Ed's picture

@ovals49 That is a pretty low place to be. Move over, I'm gonna jump in.

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@TheOtherMaven the League dumped the parties, the D and R parties got together (post-'84 election) and pushed the League aside. They then offered to let the League sponsor one prez debate, but with such unacceptable debate format rules that the League was forced to decline the offer.

My view is that the League's panel of various media reporters probably helped to keep the others honest in not slanting their questions consistently one way, as we've seen since 1988, usually with the questions slanted in RW/pro-Corporate directions.

But it wasn't ideal either, as with the mess of the 1980 debates and the inclusion/exclusion of 3d party guy John Anderson.

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Wally's picture

@ovals49

Of course, I'd prefer they be LWV moderated. Or by some other organization that might be even more impartial.

At the Nevada debate, for the first time ever that I recall, socialism was seriously discussed. Bernie spoke specifically about the labor theory of value and workers' councils. About Socialism for the rich and rugged individualism for the poor and working families. About how Donald Trump was very much the recipient of socialist subsidies. Bernie was also given a decent amount of time to address and refute attacks.

I don't like the "ready to rumble" framework of corporate sponsored debates but it's what we got. Most are really bad but once in awhile, unexpectedly, there's one or two that aren't altogether bad. I do expect tonight's debate to be one of the worst in terms of mudslinging. But Bernie has demonstrated that he's adroit at magically turning the mudpies into blueberry pies with whipping cream on top. We'll see. I look forward to it albeit with certain trepidation.

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16 users have voted.
Not Henry Kissinger's picture

ERVU8JBWAAMykvr.jpg

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6 users have voted.

The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

@Not Henry Kissinger
Harding, not Kerrigan, was the outsider who was despised by the figure skating establishment and whose performance scores were routinely shaved by the establishment judges because they disliked everything about her -- her declasse hairstyles, her home-made costumes, her substitution of "unfeminine" athletic power for the elegant grace of their preferred elfs (similarly, see: Williams sisters), and for that matter, the unwillowy proportions of her pelvis.

Furthermore, Harding won the event at which Kerrigan was attacked (the 1994 US Figure Skating Championship), but her title was later stripped by the establishment; and Kerrigan lost at the Olympics (a result broadly denounced in the US as being motivated by the politics of the sport, in an interesting display of bad-loserism, presumably because the denouement failed to fulfill the comeback narrative that the US media had been building).

Kerrigan may have come home from Lillehammer with the silver, but ultimately Harding's career accomplishments on the ice were more noteworthy and impressive.

It would make a great opera -- with Harding's parts written to show off a singer with exceptional power, and Kerrigan's written to show off refined technique.

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14 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

@UntimelyRippd
continuing claim that she didn't know about the attack beforehand (I'm agnostic), then she was stripped of her title because of the actions of her uncontrollable raging TonyaBros.

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5 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Raggedy Ann's picture

They are all gunning for Bernie. It will be interesting to see how he does. I don't want to watch, but I might. I'd rather participate in an Open Thread, but info comes in slowly, so I might need to suck it up and watch. We'll see.

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10 users have voted.

“The trouble [with injustice] is that once you see it, you can’t unsee it. And once you’ve seen it, keeping quiet, saying nothing, becomes as political an act as speaking out. There is no innocence. Either way, you’re accountable.”
-- Arundhati Roy

WoodsDweller's picture

@Raggedy Ann
will perform the way he always does -- consistently. As someone pointed out, Sanders hasn't won any debates this cycle and I don't expect him to win this one. He also hasn't lost any debates, and I don't expect him to lose this one.
There will be a lot of noise, some stunning stupidity, and some churn in the second through fifth place candidates.

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17 users have voted.

"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett

Raggedy Ann's picture

@WoodsDweller
Bernie's performance, although on any given night.....

I don't like the others and when they are gunning for Bernie, I know I will be raising my blood pressure responding to my teevee. THAT is the reason I don't want to watch - not because I fear Bernie's performance.

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11 users have voted.

“The trouble [with injustice] is that once you see it, you can’t unsee it. And once you’ve seen it, keeping quiet, saying nothing, becomes as political an act as speaking out. There is no innocence. Either way, you’re accountable.”
-- Arundhati Roy

@Raggedy Ann like to try to watch I know myself better than that - screaming of obscenities is a given and it would probably scare the hell out of my new cats. The old ones were used to it, these guys have yet to adjust to my ranting, although they'll get there, probably soon, but not tonight.

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5 users have voted.

Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

Hopefully, Bernie's debate prep has been focused on rebutting all the garbage coming his way tonight. Go Bernie!

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10 users have voted.

1) Let’s see what ya got! For all the faux concern about “Bernie hasn’t been vetted” and implication that there’s all this crap that Is just waiting to come out about Bernie, well so far, we’ve seen nothing. If someone wants to take sanders out, it’s past time for the big guns. The same old red baiting and reusing Clinton’s 2016 oppo won’t cut it. While I don’t really trust him, Peter Daou claims there’s no there there and I am tempted to believe him on that. I find it really hard to believe if anyone had anything they’d be able to keep it under wraps this long.
2) I love the smell of desperation in the morning. The notSanders candidates really need to start running against him and stop fighting over second place. I think they whiffed it big time last debate by fighting among themselves and going for the low hanging Bloomberg fruit, leaving Bernie unscathed. At this point, they would need to present a united front against Bernie to have any effect and even then, I think it may be too late to do much damage.
And it seems to me like at least Amy, Pete and Warren would rather burn the whole thing down than lose. So, I anticipate those three will continue to snipe at each other because they all still think they’re going to win and thus everyone is the enemy. They’d do best to focus on taking out the leader, but none of them have the discipline to focus that much.
3) Where am I? Why am I here? Was the last debate a wake up call for Bloomberg? Will he show any signs of being prepared this time? Will he explode Scanners style, live on TV? Or is he still counting on being able to drown out anything related to the debate with his admittedly slick ads? I have to admit I’m really impressed with Bloomie. I didn’t think it was possible to run a lazier campaign than Donald Trump, yet here we are.

I must admit, I might actually watch this one. I see this debate as “do or die” for any of the notSanders candidates stopping him on their own. My gut feeling is we are going to see a few token swipes at Sanders, Biden snoozing through the second half, Bloomberg trying to be ignored and the rest running against each other for the nominee of a brokered convention.

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@Dr. John Carpenter
Sanders isn't in the lead in SC; Biden is and he has that SC institutional DP backing him up. Voters, particularly white and disproportionately men, are suckers for the white "I'm rich because I know how to run a business" or "I have the answers" candidates. The combined CCDs for Pete and Steyer in NV was 19%, but outside the LV and Reno metro areas, they did much better than that. Latest RCP combined average for these two in SC is 25.5%. That's a Bloomberg target group going forward. The other is the old white neoliberalcons that are currently with Joe.

Sanders' voters are now the most committed to his election and therefore, not all the vulnerable to being picked off. Biden is likely to hold onto 25% in SC -- DP party loyalty -- but the remaining 50% or so could be persuaded to switch.

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5 users have voted.

@Marie
It has never been in Warren's interest to compete with Bernie for votes on the left. She should always be (and have been) competing to draw the votes of people who want some sort of progressivish candidate but hate Bernie becuz bros and 2016, or think he's too far out there and can't unite the party and blah blah.

Somebody here has said that Warren's campaign is being run by Clintonistas; all I can say is, it has all the hallmarks of being executed by those losers.

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9 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Do the candidates have any takeaways from the NV debate and caucuses?

Liz and Amy under-performed in the caucuses compared to their polling averages. Was it a good strategy for Amy to hit Pete or did she fail to do so effectively? Amy died in Clark County (half the state's population/voters) with a 2.13% result. Liz did better but still not well with 8.29%. Why did Amy do so much better in rural and northern counties and in several instances better than Warren?

Why were Pete and Steyer strongest in tandem? What's the affinity for these two in more rural areas?

While somewhat speculative due to the absence of a report on the results in the two Clark County CDs, it appears that the NV AAs remained loyal to Clinton/Obama. To be expected wherever the institutional DP is strong. This, of course, is a problem for all the other candidates in SC -- 61% AA primary voters in 2016.

What do any of these other candidates have to offer to pierce that AA "firewall" to get support for themselves and also pick up a fair share of the remaining vote?

IMO, Amy's got almost nothing. However, heading into ST including MN with both NV and SC below 5% lead to an upset in MN. She's probably gone after ST anyway, but it's not good for a politician to lose their home state in a presidential primary. (But didn't hurt Rubio in 2016; so, maybe it shouldn't concern Amy.)

Does Warren play her ace against Biden in SC? Like Amy she too needs the women's vote which they failed to obtain in sufficient numbers in NV, and risks losing in the MA primary.

Sander's did get 11% of the SC AA vote in 2016; more men than women. Bernie has two cards. He's he only M4All in the race (and several are hostile to it), and racism or indifference to AAs in Bloomberg and Pete can't be hidden.

Biden, apparently, just needs to show up and avoid collapsing on the debate stage.

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Raggedy Ann's picture

@Marie
you made it interesting. I just might watch!
Pleasantry

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4 users have voted.

“The trouble [with injustice] is that once you see it, you can’t unsee it. And once you’ve seen it, keeping quiet, saying nothing, becomes as political an act as speaking out. There is no innocence. Either way, you’re accountable.”
-- Arundhati Roy

@Raggedy Ann
it won't be another snooze fest like all but the last one and the couple of sharp moments that Tulsi had in the early one when they let her on the stage. However, back then Warren was coasting on her high poll ratings that have no disappeared and Amy was just trying to be one of the last ones still standing.

Going after Sanders instead of Pete in the NH debate was Warren's biggest mistake. She lost support and it seems to have gone to Amy and Pete. Biden didn't have enough in NH for her to challenge, but did she ignore Pete in IA and his NH polling? However, she does have to be careful because on offense she comes off sounding shrill and that's a big turn-off for men in particular. It should also be noted that Warren already has a huge gender gap in her polling.

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Alligator Ed's picture

@Marie @Marie

Does Warren play her ace against Biden in SC? Like Amy she too needs the women's vote which they failed to obtain in sufficient numbers in NV, and risks losing in the MA primary.

What is it--the gender card? Amy's still in. Oh, yeah, I forgot, she's a Native American.

P.S. Love "neoliberalcon"

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@Alligator Ed
engaging in politics and others took note; she also had a book to sell that widened the venues willing to host her. Biden's bankruptcy bill.

From SalonJoe Biden's Greatest Betrayal - the one senate vote that makes it hard to support a Biden run. (There's more than one horrendous Biden vote, but doesn't seem to matter to many people.)

...
In light of what occurred in its wake, this law is easily one of the most disgraceful aspects of the Bush and Biden legacies. The harm it did to middle-class Americans, especially during the crushing events of the recession four years later, is immeasurable. The bill made it nearly impossible for average families to file Chapter 7 bankruptcy protection, also known as "clean slate" bankruptcies intended to discharge nearly all debts, a matter of a few years before they'd need it the most. The bill instituted an all new means test to determine whether debtors with insurmountable financial hardships earned enough income to pay back all or part of their unsecured debts, specifically credit debt. If they earned too much, a clean slate bankruptcy became impossible, and they'd be forced to file Chapter 13, which would force debtors to pay back their debt over a five-year timeline, thus legalizing neo-indentured-servitude to creditors.
...

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mimi's picture

May be this time I can catch it, before it's blocked overseas. Thanks.

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mimi's picture

@mimi

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Wally's picture

@mimi

It's a mob against Bernie. Bloomberg has paid a bunch of boobirds in the audience. The moderators aren't exercising any control. They are not giving Bernie equal time to respond to attack after attack. Less and less people are going to watch these debates so there's that.

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@Wally
it's not ugly -- most are repeating their well rehearsed talking points that they've said in every debate. The pandering to AAs in this one is off the charts.

Warren started her first response well, but then blew it repeating her fake story about being fired for being pregnant and using that to attack Bloomberg over a claim that he told a pregnant employee to 'kill it.' Repeating her NDA attack on Bloomberg when he/his company released those women from it was a foot-fault that made Bloomberg look good.

Bernie's holding up under the attacks. He really could use some new and better framing on these matters that more easily shut down the attacks.

Overall so far, this isn't going to help Amy, Pete, Liz, and Steyer. Biden will hold onto a first or strong second in SC. IMO, not resharpening their knives for Bloomberg was a big mistake.

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mimi's picture

@mimi
I feel a pity with all of the candidates and all the watchers. The moderators are everything but not in control and could as well have stayed home.

Is the clapping of the audience also bought off by various factions?

Sigh.

Hear for the first time Klobuchar speaking live. Not as bad as I thought she is.

Thank God there are breaks.

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mimi's picture

@mimi @mimi @mimi @mimi
these debates in their structure so that they become more meaningful? For example
30 minutes between two different candidates exclusively? The 30 minutes between some other two different candidates? And on and on and on and on til everyone can't stand it anymore and shuts down the TV ?

All of them getting asked the same set of questions.

Ok, so far the only thing I got a different perception than I had before so far is about Klobuchar. Biden is gawdawful in pointing fingers. I think Bernie doesn't deserve the company of the others, Bloomberg should have been barred from participating, as he clearly bought off some parts in the audience to clap for him and behaves like Zeus is mad to have been forced down the Olymp to talk to these lowly people. Warren needs voice training, her pitch is always too high and girlishy and her body/hand language distracting. And the Tom Steyer I see for the first time.

Buttitieg is a talking (f)ar(s)ce trained and educated by deep state to mess with people's emotions and feelings about race and sex. Biden would be laughed out of the room, if he happened to talk like he is in Europe.

I put sanctions on Biden to stop spreading his goobledigoob with such kind of authoritarian impetus. Steyer is under attack from his collaborateurs. Bernie is talking truth to power about Netanyahu.

Well educate me later in what way it helped you to make a choice for your upcoming vote.
I don't know how to listen and comment at the same time. Uncle Dick and a deer stand? What is that about?

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Bob In Portland's picture

Girlfriend would rather watch the Warriors. If they get blown out in the first quarter we may get to see some.

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Raggedy Ann's picture

@Bob In Portland
I didn't turn on the teevee. We'll see.

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7 users have voted.

“The trouble [with injustice] is that once you see it, you can’t unsee it. And once you’ve seen it, keeping quiet, saying nothing, becomes as political an act as speaking out. There is no innocence. Either way, you’re accountable.”
-- Arundhati Roy

@Bob In Portland

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6 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Raggedy Ann's picture

Intercepted podcast with Nina Turner and Brianna Joy Gray about the attacks on them.

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3 users have voted.

“The trouble [with injustice] is that once you see it, you can’t unsee it. And once you’ve seen it, keeping quiet, saying nothing, becomes as political an act as speaking out. There is no innocence. Either way, you’re accountable.”
-- Arundhati Roy

snoopydawg's picture

.

And who is this Tim guy and why should we listen to him?

Senior Adviser to @MikeBloomberg
’s 2020 presidential campaign.

And if Bloomb goes after Bernie for what he said about Castro then Bernie should just respond by asking Mike why he keeps defending Xi of China?

Take that, Mike.

Bloomb's campaign has been posting some very false tweets on Bernie's record and they have been deleted after I and lots of other people reported them to Twitter. Lol again.. take that Mike.

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7 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

orlbucfan's picture

on here, go to Naked Capitalism. Are you familiar with it? It's Yves Smith's news blog, and it's excellent. Reason why I'm telling you about it is they have a lot of international folks in their commentariat. The link is:

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/

The Progressive Wing will also have a live link/thread going. You can find them at:

https://theprogressivewing.com/

I'll be at a Sanders Meetup tonight. Hope this helps. Rec'd!!

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11 users have voted.

Some yahoos make me want to change species!

mimi's picture

@orlbucfan
It works as long as it still live broadcast for an audience here in Germany too. Last time that was not the case after the live broadcast was over. Don't know why that was though. I am a pretty dummy when it comes to click at the right time on the right button to get to the right place, I wanted to go. Wink

Oh, Bloomberg the superman did all the good things there are... sigh.

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snoopydawg's picture

.

And here is Mike defending Xi.

I read an article last night on how Bloomberg went after a report for what she wrote about him. He made her life a living nightmare and it went on for over a year. If youre' interested in it let me know.

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10 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

Unabashed Liberal's picture

(IMO). And, I say that as someone who normally watches all the debates for both corporatist legacy parties (including in 2016). Hopefully, there will be some serious and probing questions this evening.

Regarding 'vetting,' don't expect it to really start until someone (likely, of course, Bernie) has all but cinched the nomination. That's what happened with DT--when it became obvious that he would likely get the nod, the MSM daggers came out, big time.

Remember this?

Washington Post assigns army of 20 to dig into 'every phase' of Trump's life
by Paul Bedard|
May 11, 2016 11:51 AM

The Washington Post has built a sizable army of reporters to dig into every facet of Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump's life, urged on by new owner Jeff Bezos to reveal everything about the potential nominees.

Post Associate Editor Bob Woodward revealed Wednesday that the Post has assigned 20 staffers to Trump. In addition the paper plans a book.

"There's a lot we don't know," he told the National Association of Realtors convention in Washington. "We have 20 people working on Trump, we're going to do a book, we're doing articles about every phase of his life," he added.

IMO, there won't be anything to speak of for them to dig up if/when there is a similar undertaking, especially, nothing that would matter to the Dem Party Base. If anything, I believe that Repubs will go after some of his proposals. More than a few have been proposed numerous times (including by other lawmakers), to go absolutely nowhere. That would include when Dems had the Presidency and/or Congress.

DeFasio and Harkin couldn't even get a financial transaction tax passed on the heels of the 2008 Recession, etc., when there was major "deficit fever," if not flat-out hysteria. Then, there was the attempt to raise the federal minimum wage--to just $10.10. Harkin fessed up on C-Span regarding this target amount--it was enough to raise the wage floor of low income individuals to 'just above the required minimum income' that would quality them for various social welfare programs, including SNAP, IIRC. I posted the video of this interview at the time at DKos. That was one of two dubious policies that Harkin was involved in, which opened my eyes about him. No loss when he retired, for sure. And, of course, the Expansion Of Social Security Act which pops up every two years.

Could be wrong, but, expecting the network coverage, and assignment of reporters, to change. Right now, NBC has a top veteran journalist covering Biden; a young fellow who's been out of college for about 3 or 4 years (from what I've read) is covering Bernie. (Mike Memoli vs Shaq Brewster) I'm guessing that once Bernie takes the bulk of Super Tuesday delegates, that will change.

Anyhoo, really looking forward to tonight's debate. Hopefully, there will be less grandstanding by the so-called journalists, and, at least, some questions probing enough to tell us something we don't already know. Phew! For a change, I'd also love to see questions that can't be answered with pre-canned 'talking points.' Smile

We've already early voted; the crowd was about the same as in 2016 (at our precinct). Of course, our votes won't count, since we're in a sea of Red. Ugh!

See ya at Alpha's Thread, if he has one.

Biggrin

Mollie

I think dogs are the most amazing creatures; they give unconditional love. For me they are the role model for being alive.
~~Gilda Radner, Comedienne

Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues, but the parent of all others.
~~Cicero

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2 users have voted.

Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.