Trump appears to be serious about leaving Afghanistan

President Trump appears to be on the verge of actually doing something good with his presidency, and ending the endless quagmire that is our occupation of Afghanistan.
This will likely happen eventhough we know that a civil war will break out when we leave.

Before you give Trump too much credit, remember that he is currently killing innocent civilians at a record rate, and that he has no problems with committing war crimes.

The most interesting aspect of Trump's planned withdrawal is how few people oppose it. Even the warhawks aren't speaking out against the peace plan too loudly.
It's not like the madness of our occupation of Afghanistan was suddenly exposed for what it is.
It's not like it suddenly became obvious that we could never win.
It's not like doing something in the best interests of the American people suddenly came into fashion in Washington.
Maybe at some level, there was a realization that all the money that could be stolen in Afghanistan had already been stolen.

For example, this is the WSJ.
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And this is CATO.
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It's weird to see the right-wing supporting the end of a war, while seeing tepid support for the war from mainstream liberals (with some opposition from a few notable Dems).
The right-wing doesn't oppose killing lots and lots of foreigners. They just don't want to spend money on the effort.

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boriscleto's picture

And Afghanistan, being landlocked, isn't a base for that war.

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" In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy "

Wally's picture

This article by Nick Hurse, even though it's almost 10 years old, shows that the US military is there for the long haul and permanent occupation (CAUTION -- the amount of money spent on this bases is obscene especially when our own infrastructure is rotting):

https://original.antiwar.com/engelhardt/2010/10/21/how-permanent-are-ame...

And here's a listing of the current bases:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ISAF_installations_in_Afghanistan

If 10% of them are closed down before I die, I'll eat my dirty socks (unless Bernie gets elected in which case, I call it off because . . . miracle.).

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and needs a gimmick, SOMETHING to distract attention from Venezuela, Iran, Yemen, the fact that his Secretary of Education has cancelled forgiveness of some part of student debt for teacher and medical professionals, his pro-GMO, pro-factory farm ag policy and need I go on?

Not to mention that he has a major problem with women voters, and the tweet storm disrespecting the accomplishments of four freshman Congresswomen did him no favors with that demographic. If La Maxwell is not indicted, if a rich socialite is seen as getting the benefit of conservative male Aw gee, give the kid a break syndrome, when poor women of every color and ethnicity are being incarcerated for far less destructive crimes than those of which La Max has been accused...if that happens, I think he loses. We shall see.

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Nastarana

@Nastarana @Nastarana
Student loan forgiveness drives them up the wall. They didn't go to college and they see loan forgiveness as Democrat welfare for the rich. They see everyone getting something but themselves getting the bill.
Not saying that's true, just saying that's what the belief, like the second amendment gives them the right to own nuclear missiles.

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@The Voice In the Wilderness for students going into teaching and health care occupations only. That is a program which Ms. De Voss cancelled, and those are occupations which are still available to working class kids if only they can come up with the Community College fees. The fee for a year long LPN program my daughter took was $12,000, which, fortunately I had because I am not a spender. So, after a year she gets to be an LPN, does an important job well and makes a better wage than I ever did.

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Nastarana

@Nastarana

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@Nastarana
Not long ago it was $400 here. IIRC, the private engineering school that I went to charges $12,000 now ($1,200 back in the day). $12,000 sounds crazy for a tax supported community college.
Of course, in the neighboring county the President of the public community college has a salary of $600K and a pension after being booted out after four years of work!
And people wonder at the rise of fascism. This county is (D), the neighboring county is (R), both are greedy corrupt pigs.

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@The Voice In the Wilderness And books, fees travel to and from etc. on top of that. These health care jobs, such as CNA, LPN, and various medical techs, and so on are some of the best paying jobs around still (more or less) within reach of working class kids.

I basically had to give up my own chance of a comfortable retirement in order to get two girls through school and established in life. Not meaning to complain, it is what it is and both are fairly high earning good citizens now.

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Nastarana

@Nastarana Trump is not in trouble at all. He won 84.3% of the counties in 2016 and it gave him a substantial win in the EC where it counts. Only Bernie Sanders has the ability to make a dent in this outrageous advantage Trump has on a county wide basis. Sanders seems to have a knack when it comes to appealing to rural voters. Trump has pissed off some people in the Midwest with his trade war and that is makes him somewhat vulnerable. But only Sanders can take advantage of this.

The rest of the Democratic contenders can not. Suburban and rural people pretty much hate the rest of the field. They might like Tulsi, since she is military, but they are clueless about who she is. If it is anyone but Sanders, Trump can still lose the popular vote by several million and handily win the EC. Again.

Disclaimer.

I am very lukewarm about Sanders this time around. Supported him last time until he supported her, then voted for Stein. Haven't given Sanders a dime this time though he keeps begging. I will probably vote for him in the general, if he makes it, but do not intend to support him until then.

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Wally's picture

@davidgmillsatty

You'll vote for Bernie in the general but not in the primary even though you argue that only Bernie can beat Trump.

Note: I also voted for Stein in November (in a blue locked state) last time around after supporting Bernie during the primaries, first time I got actively involved in presidential politics since 1972, my first vote. If Bernie doesn't get the nomination, and I figure we'll have a pretty good handle on where he's going come Super Tuesday, March 3, 2020, I won't vote anymore period and won't even be politically active aside from becoming a practitioner of what I have come to call working class hedonism.

So, I gotta ask, if you can see yourself as voting for Bernie come November if we get the chance, why not spend a few minutes to go vote for him in your state primary?

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@Wally I live in TN. Trump won 92 out of 95 counties here. Who I vote for in the general would not matter one iota. But you make a good point. If he has a chance to win some delegates in the TN in primaries I probably will go vote to help him win the nomination. My vote for him in the primaries did no good last time. Clinton won here easily. But Sanders had no name recognition here then.

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Wally's picture

@davidgmillsatty

That's the BIG day on my calendar, March 3, 2020.

I see there's a Survey Monkey poll for TN that 538 lists with Biden at around 30% and Bernie and Warren statistically tied at around 15%. So it's pretty conceivable Bernie will get some delegates out of it.

And like I've said on numerous occasions. if Bernie crashes out on Super Tuesday, I'll be done with electoral and pretty much all forms of politics (I suppose it can be argued that opting for one beer over another involves a political choice).

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@Wally It will be curious to see who is left standing by Super Tuesday.

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@Wally
Who is voting for Biden? Brainless robots?
I'd expect at least Harris.

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Wally's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness

. . . who will vote for Biden. Others who are party hacks will vote and even work for him to keep their jobs. Lotsa AAs will vote for him coz Obama. All that's about 1/3 of the folks who are gonna vote in the primaries, and that seems pretty consistent across every single poll I've seen on RCP (not the Revolutionary Communist Party website).

Obviously, Harris is having problems even with the AA vote. And I don't think it's just coz Tulsi nailed her so hard at that last debate. She simply doesn't come across like Obama. Her slice of the Hillary women's vote is pared down by Warren. Booker's campaign is gonna pick up at least some in southern states.

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@Wally
Mimi, can I emigrate to Germany? Two of my grandparents were ethnic Germans living in Austria-Hungary. I took four years of German in High school. I still speak "ein bischen".

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@davidgmillsatty
I also understand that Bernie had agreed to support whoever got the nomination. I felt he could have made a perfunctory speech and let it go at that instead of actively campaigning, but I'm not privy to the agreement he had with the DNC.

I was mad too, but I'm hoping that he was playing a strategic game so that he could run this time. I have made five (minimal) contributions. I have a bumper sticker on my car.
I think his time has come and went (along with ours). I think voters are more comfortable now with Trump. Last time he was just a real estate developer and reality TV star with no experience. This time he is the sitting President and his base LOVES him. Everything we hate, they love.
I had lunch with a friend last week. He now describes himself as a former Democrat. He's not a Republican either. I would call him a Trumpista. I stopped talking politics when he got angry and talking loudly how Trump was the only one addressing the country's problems and Bernie was a SOCIALIST!, no better than a communist! People were starting to stare.

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lotlizard's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness  
All of a sudden, according to them, the Vietnam War had actually been a noble cause and the troops were heroes who had been stabbed in the back and spit on by dirty hippies and McGovernites like me.

I had lunch with a friend last week. He now describes himself as a former Democrat. He’s not a Republican either. I would call him a Trumpista. I stopped talking politics when he got angry and talking loudly how Trump was the only one addressing the country’s problems and Bernie was a SOCIALIST!, no better than a communist! People were starting to stare.

Edited to add:
Oh, and according to them, all good people were suddenly expected to support the Contras in Nicaragua.

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@lotlizard
The CIA backed followers of the ex-right wing dictator and a rebel group that thought the Sandinistas had betrayed the revolution. Naturally we backed the former and ignored the latter who actually had some popular backing. but OMG! THEY ARE LEFT OF THE SANDANISTAS!
If we had backed them, we might have pulled them away from Castro and Russia. But ideology trumped common sense.

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@davidgmillsatty the Democrats have apparently forgotten how to count electoral votes.

However, Trump's margins in the critical states of Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin were very thin. I don't say that he is likely to lose and I don't discount the Dims ability to throw yet another election.

I am inclined to think that Trump might be reelected but be facing a hostile Democratic Congress.

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Nastarana

@Nastarana I think only Sanders can make enough headway in these states to turn them by taking away some of the rural and suburban vote there. Wisconsin and Michigan have been hurt by the trade wars. Don't know about PA.

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@davidgmillsatty
He used to claim only by going to totally ConservaDem ala Spector, could Pennsylvania be turned. But he had changed radically once he got the big MSM gig. Haven't looked at his new blog. I'm unwilling to pay money just to be banned again for dissing Her Heinous.
Farmers may be hurt but they don't have any votes. City proles will blame all economic woes on Mexicans stealing jobs.
Southern Illinois hurt big by the Chinese import bans, but they are even more insanely right wing than ever. They are busy purging their party of anyone with an ounce of sanity. It's Guns, Gays, and God ratcheted to an astounding height. With "Mexican Invasion" thrown in.

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ggersh's picture

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trump will be amerika's last president

ameriKa's been crapified and yes that
has trickled down

Was not them Rep. Kucinich calling for the same thing back in '08?

I still say T-Rump is looking for a gimmick. I would like to see us leave WTO. I think in general that the benefits of international trade, which go mostly to the wealthy, are greatly overrated, and I think that Americans ought to be able live quite comfortably on our own resources, with, for example, one house per family instead of five for the likes of the Kerrys and the Romneys and no housing for others.

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Nastarana

lotlizard's picture

@Nastarana  
with reducing dependence on fossil fuels and returning to local and regional food sourcing.

And then there is the pollution and environmental degradation connected with maintaining the naval and air forces required to police the sea lanes, trade routes, fishing grounds etc.

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Right on cue. "Well we can't leave now. "

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