Bernie is not the sheepdog you need to worry about.

By all means, speak your piece. But will someone please explain to me how in the hell everyone turned Bernie from social democrat into fucking Marx? Never once have I heard Bernie say that capitalism should not exist in the United States.

If Bernie happens to survive the collusion going on to tank his campaign, Trump and the GOP will "socialist" him to death from sun up to sun down. The clown car of establishment Democrats will also take more than a shot or two. His speech was simply his attempt to embrace and frame this dirty word into something Americans can relate to. For that, he gets mocked by the media and butchered by neolibs, libertarians, right-wingers, corporatists, and pompous lefties. He referenced MLK, FDR, and Marx trying to name a just few socialists that people can compare, contrast and relate to.

Oh there are many, and of course we must define what qualifies someone to be a ‘socialist’. For example, Bernie Sanders is largely considered a social democrat although many ‘true’ or ‘hardcore’ socialists will adamantly say he is not a true socialist because he doesn’t advocated for the means of production to be controlled democratically by the workers.

For argument’s sake we’ll only use people who advocated or had a philosophy of altering the current system of economy to that of a traditionally socialist one. For this reason also, it will include Marxists whom were types of socialists too (until the term socialist was later used to differentiate itself from authoritarian communism).

Without further ado, I shall take you through the fascinating (and sometimes violent) world of socialism.

  • Albert Einstein
  • Che Guevara
  • Rosa Luxemburg
  • Emma Goldman
  • George Orwell
  • Oscar Wilde
  • Nelson Mandela
  • V. I. Lenin
  • Mao Zedong
  • Malcolm X
  • Martin Luther King Jr. - Yep, he was a democratic socialist. History tends to gloss over the fact that many human rights activists and movements were actually linked to socialism and even communism. I like to call it ‘capitalist whitewashing’…
  • Leon Trotsky
  • Bertrand Russell
  • John Lennon
  • Pete Seeger

The point being, pick your choose. I bet people can argue over this list for days. It doesn't change the fact that Bernie was absolutely right. The government provides billionaires and corporations with cash and safety nets no questions asked. Privatize the profits and socialize the losses to use that word again.

The day after Bernie's speech, Trump came out with a plan to subsidize farmers, aka big ag, to make up for losses from his tariffs. No one asked "how will you pay for it". No hue or cry anywhere.

Jamie Dimon took his government handout and a bonus for committing fraud that no one ever went to jail for. He didn't even have to pass a drug test to get it.

Roads, firemen, cops, school are paid for with our public dollars. That means we own them and their means of production/service: fire halls, police stations, cop cars, school buildings, and wages. Why do you think privatization so outrageous and pisses so many people off? Because capitalists are taking our assets for pennies on the dollar so they can then charge us to use what we own. Again, privatizing the profits and socializing the losses.

I think it is highly probable that Bernie's ship, our ship, sailed in 2016; and he missed the boat by remaining in a system so vile and so corrupt that it can only be reformed by rising from the ashes. The party is manufacturing candidates faster than Bezos makes a billion hoping one of them will stick. At worst, they'll dilute the first round of voting enough for the superdelegates to step in and tell us kids where to sit.

Warren hid in 2016, and she is sabotaging 2020. She is the real sheepdog that so many here, me on occasion too, accuse Bernie of being. She talks like a progressive and votes like a Republican. She is Obama 2.0, 2020's Trojan Horse.

Here is the debate schedule. Since Warren is tied with Bernie for second place in CA, does it look like they set this up to protect her? Who at the kiddies table is going to lay a glove on her? Helping to assure people tune in for the warm up debate, they put it on night one.

Wednesday:
Booker
Castro
de Blasio
Delaney
Gabbard
Inslee
Klobuchar
O'Rourke
Warren

Thursday:
Biden
Bennet
Buttigieg
Gillibrand
Harris
Hickenlooper
Sanders
Swalwell
Williamson
Yang

Share
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39 users have voted.

Comments

My voting plans remain the same. Bernie or Gabbard in the Democratic primary; Green in the general.

As I've mentioned, Green in the general is a no brainer for me because my state's electoral votes will go to the Democratic nominee, even if the nominee is the Party's jackass mascot. I don't envy people in purple states their choice between Trump, the Democrat and one or more candidates who will surely lose the election.

I see Republicans as the short-term somewhat greater evil and Democrats as the long-term greater evil. So, I could not even rationalize voting Democratic on the ground of lesser evil. Yet, Trump for me was proof that the USA had jumped the shark.

Astounding, isn't it, that America can imagine itself electing Trump, but not Bernie?

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28 users have voted.
dkmich's picture

@HenryAWallace

and I don't regret it one bit. I regret Trump, but I accept no responsibility for that evil dumbass winning. I believe without a doubt that Bernie won CA and the primary, and he would have beat Trump if the Dems hadn't of rigged and stolen the primary.

Amazing how Trump accomplishes more in a week, all of it bad, than Obama accomplished all 8 years - also all bad.

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23 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

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gulfgal98's picture

@dkmich 1 in one of the weirder states around, Florida. I may not even vote in the general if Bernie is not the nominee (unless is it Tulsi). It sounds as though the Greens are going to run Howie Hawkins and I was not impressed with an interview that I saw with him. I felt he was not really up on foreign policy at all. I need someone to vote for, not against.

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13 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West

"There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare." Sun Tzu

"Propaganda is one hell of a drug." Abby Martin

"Politicians are cowards." Mike Gravel

dkmich's picture

@gulfgal98 @gulfgal98 You also talked me out of voting for Trump just for the pleasure of double tapping Hillary.

INdependents are going to determine who wins, and they don't want Trump, Biden, or Warren. The only thing warren might use to get her over the top would be her gender and the woman's vote. How embarrassing that so many woman might be that shallow. Bernie is the only one with the cross over appeal. He is truly the anti-trump. If he accomplishes 50% of what he stands for, we'll be 100x better off. All these Warren supporters giving Bernie zero credit for all the change he's brought about so far. They are all running on his agenda.

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13 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

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@dkmich

I think that was a feature, not a bug.

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13 users have voted.
dkmich's picture

@HenryAWallace

Not a doubt having no track record was a planned asset. I still get totally pissed when I think about the scam they ran on voters in 2008.

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12 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

*donate to c99 *like us on Facebook *follow us on Twitter

@dkmich

state legislature whenever controversial stuff was up for a vote. I actually defended him for this during the primary, based upon some comment made by Illinois state legislators to the effect that people working behind the scenes on a compromise often voted present so as not to damage their efforts. In hindsight, this doesn't even make sense.

Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now. (-;

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0 users have voted.
thanatokephaloides's picture

@HenryAWallace

I don't envy people in purple states their choice between Trump, the Democrat and one or more candidates who will surely lose the election.

Welcome to my little slice of Hell! (Colorado)

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5 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

@thanatokephaloides

pretend to know your dilemma.

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0 users have voted.
earthling1's picture

That's a shame.
He puts voice to the genuine "left". What used to be a Democrat policy platform.

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22 users have voted.
Unabashed Liberal's picture

@earthling1

Mollie

“Dogs have given us their absolute all. We are the center of their universe. We are the focus of their love and faith and trust. They serve us in return for scraps. It is without a doubt the best deal man has ever made.
~~Roger Caras

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9 users have voted.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
--George Bernard Shaw, Irish Dramatist & Socialist
"We [corporations] are the government!" Actor John Colicos (1978)

dkmich's picture

@earthling1

Amazing how Gillibrand was begging for dollars just yesterday and yet made the stage.

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13 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

*donate to c99 *like us on Facebook *follow us on Twitter

gulfgal98's picture

@earthling1 I think that the teens who run his account were too late in convincing Gravel to run again which is why he did not make the debates.

The two teenage boys who run his campaign and his Twitter account have done a tremendous job of building support for Mike Gravel They do all the posting and his Twitter account is a must follow. https://twitter.com/MikeGravel It is definitely one of my top favorite Twitter accounts.

Even though they do all the posting, they are working closely with Mike on a several times a week basis. Mike fully supports what they are doing.

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19 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West

"There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare." Sun Tzu

"Propaganda is one hell of a drug." Abby Martin

"Politicians are cowards." Mike Gravel

TheOtherMaven's picture

@gulfgal98

And They will "justify" that, if it comes to light, by pointing to his low pollings - never mind that he's been given the "broadcast silence" treatment.

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14 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

gulfgal98's picture

@TheOtherMaven @TheOtherMaven the individual donor requirement. However, he did poll higher than some of the people who are in the debates. The teens are still working to try to get him into one of the later debates but the bar for those is much higher.

The next three paragraphs are my editorial comment. I firmly believe that everyone should have been allowed in the first two debates, regardless of their number of donors or their polling. I also believe that every candidate in the debates should be asked the very same questions as the other candidates and should be allowed the exact same amount of time to be heard. Anything less is a disservice to the voters.

The whole thing being run by the criminally corrupt DNC makes this all a farce as far as giving the voters an opportunity to know ALL the candidates. And I will not be watching it as we cut the cord over nine years ago.

I have even stronger feelings that in this country we should not be allowing private parties to determine how they choose which candidates we will be allowed to vote for. The system is so corrupt that they can deny a person whom the majority of the voters want in favor of whom the establishment big money wants. The DNC has stated in open court that because they are a private entity, they can choose their candidates in any way they wish, including in a back room out of the sight of the public.

The Democratic party must die and be forever buried in the ash heap of history.

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5 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West

"There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare." Sun Tzu

"Propaganda is one hell of a drug." Abby Martin

"Politicians are cowards." Mike Gravel

@gulfgal98 while most who made the debates met both polling and fundraising thresholds, a few made it based solely on meeting the 1% in 3 polls criterion. I think DeBlasio was one of those. So, there was no requirement that both factors be met.

Disagree on allowing everyone to debate. 10 per night is already a crowded stage, shared with a half-dozen overpaid and over-corporatized moderators who will need time to show us how supposedly smart they are.

I can't wait until the field gets winnowed by 6-10. I guess that won't happen until Sept, when the eligibility requirements are doubled in size, and both factors must be met.

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3 users have voted.
Unabashed Liberal's picture

News--Rockefeller Plaza in New York.

NBC announces lineup of Democrats for each night of first 2020 Debate

Heard Tom Perez (again) on CNN earlier today. The huge numbers of Dem Candidates function sorta as a massive GOTV Campaign. Sounds like each candidate has their 'own lane' of electoral demographic voters that they're mostly tasked with bringing into the ol' Dem Party Veal Pen.

SmileMollie

“Dogs have given us their absolute all. We are the center of their universe. We are the focus of their love and faith and trust. They serve us in return for scraps. It is without a doubt the best deal man has ever made.
~~Roger Caras

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11 users have voted.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
--George Bernard Shaw, Irish Dramatist & Socialist
"We [corporations] are the government!" Actor John Colicos (1978)

dkmich's picture

@Unabashed Liberal

It was done in secret, no press present even. You trust that particularly given how fortuitous it turned out for Warren?

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16 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

*donate to c99 *like us on Facebook *follow us on Twitter

gulfgal98's picture

@dkmich Tulsi is in the same group and she will expose Warren's weaknesses, if she has a chance. I do not trust the people running this charade.

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17 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West

"There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare." Sun Tzu

"Propaganda is one hell of a drug." Abby Martin

"Politicians are cowards." Mike Gravel

Unabashed Liberal's picture

@dkmich

the Dem Party Primary. Was just passing along the info about the process (FWIW).

Pleasantry

Perez (in a CNN interview earlier today) pretty much acknowledged that the huge numbers of Dem candidates reflects their massive GOTV campaign. (Which is what I suspected.)

Regarding Warren's placement in the Debate, not certain why you consider the debate schedule to be fortuitous for her.

Obviously, I don't know, but, Warren might believe that it could make it more difficult for her to 'contrast' her policy proposals against the other top (poll-wise) candidates--Biden, Bernie, and Mayor Pete. IOW, it looks (to me) like she wound up with a seat at the "Kid's Table." Or, with all the losers.

OTOH, guess she might bask in having an elevated status compared to her opposition, based on the Debate Schedule. That's a possibility, too.

Smile

Have a nice weekend!

Mollie

“Dogs have given us their absolute all. We are the center of their universe. We are the focus of their love and faith and trust. They serve us in return for scraps. It is without a doubt the best deal man has ever made.
~~Roger Caras

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7 users have voted.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
--George Bernard Shaw, Irish Dramatist & Socialist
"We [corporations] are the government!" Actor John Colicos (1978)

dkmich's picture

@Unabashed Liberal

You are right. It could be either. I am just so suspicious of everything this party does, did, and didn't do.

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7 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

*donate to c99 *like us on Facebook *follow us on Twitter

TheOtherMaven's picture

@dkmich

is to split the candidates beforehand into two groups, the "foreshow" for Wednesday and the "main event" for Thursday. Then all that's being drawn for is the order of appearance on each night - nothing else.

Think they didn't think of that? Think they thought we wouldn't think they did that?

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12 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

EdMass's picture

I'm for Radical Acts of Anachronistic, Contemporaneous Combustion instead of common political labels you cite.

Oh look, he's a RAACC freak.

In the Middle

peace love & the middle ages

Notes Toward an Historical Poethics

Note: I'm really not sure what "poethics" are or is but it sure makes for a great word salad.

Labels: Coke - good. New Coke - bad.

/s

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7 users have voted.

Help me Mr. Wizard!

Drizzle, Drazzle, Druzzle, Drome;
Time for this one to come home.

I am EdMass. I approve this message.

Stop the War!

karl pearson's picture

I think our ship also sailed in 2008; we just didn't know it at the time. During the 2008 Democratic primary, Obama was presented as the progressive vs. the neoliberal Clinton. People wanted a big change after 8 years of Bush II and thought Obama was the answer. Looking back, it's easy to see that Obama's progressivism was partially manufactured by the Kennedy wing of the Democratic party. BTW, there could be a couple of 2020 Trojan Horses. The Dem establishment plays hard ball.

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21 users have voted.
dkmich's picture

@karl pearson @karl pearson

at pushing progressives around, and how totally incapable they are of finding their behind with both hands when it comes to taking on Republicans.

Obama definitely was a Trojan Horse. Warren is going to have a hard time foolin Independents again after his Oscar winning performance. The Hillbamabots are all agog for her. She tweets them pictures of her dog every week. Awwww.. And don't ever forget she has a vagina. She is running low key on gender now. Her childcare promises were deliberately planned to rope in professional working moms. If she wins, sexists will appear everywhere.

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17 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

*donate to c99 *like us on Facebook *follow us on Twitter

@dkmich agree on much more than they disagree. They believe in capitalism. If they believe in capitalism they believe in the destruction of the environment, families and democracy, and all means justify the end...profits. They disagree on minor (to them) side issues they believe are important to us, and we get played every time.

The only hopeful thing is they're running out of new and improved scams.

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15 users have voted.

@Snode an aggressive, imperialist foreign policy.

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10 users have voted.

@Snode
FDR and HST believed in capitalism and weren't for destruction of the environment, families and democracy. State ownership of all assets is NOT the answer. In fact, it is the ultimate monopoly.

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1 user has voted.
TheOtherMaven's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness @The Voice In the Wilderness

Capitalism OR "the environment, families and democracy".

100 years ago it was still possible to think we could have it all. But now we're starting to see with our own newly-opened eyes that what we were told over and over and over again really is so: we cannot have infinite growth on a finite planet.

We're hitting the limits, and it may already be too late.

Edit: I notice the "fallacy of the excluded middle" in the above argument. That is, the means of production "must" be controlled by monolithic entities: either The Corporations or The State, and never, ever The People.

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4 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

@The Voice In the Wilderness but in my lifetime it's true, it's what I know. FDR and HST were just before my time and were already being mythified.

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1 user has voted.

does seem more weighted with top tier candidates. But either night, frontrunner Biden would be the most likely candidate to attack, also Bernie and socialism. Warren, in 2d or 3d place, doesn't strike me as a good target to go after for those polling below her or anyone. Unlikely to be much attacking overall as it's opening round and these are polite Dems.

Here in CA, I will be voting for Tulsi in the primary and if she doesn't make it to the general, Bernie, Andrew Yang or Liz Warren would be my remaining hopefuls. No checking Green Pty for me -- while I'm sure their candidate is a decent fellow, I might have preferred they select someone with not such a dramatic track record of losing elections, even a political neophyte. Howie Hawkins is oh-for-24 in trying to win elective office. In his last attempt, for gov of NY against Cuomo, with his many years of experience running for office, he registered a whopping 1.7% with the voters. Wow. The Greens would have done just as well with a promising youngster fresh out of college.

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7 users have voted.
Big Al's picture

@wokkamile probably wouldn't have much of a chance either and wouldn't present a very good look.
But that's not the point of voting green.

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9 users have voted.
wendy davis's picture

@wokkamile

that the greens will choose howie hawkins in august (five or six others are running), but good golly miss molly! do you have any idea of how epically the decks are stacked against not only third parties, but the greens in particular?

and it's of course due to the fact that the D team wants it that way. imo, when past votes had been e-counted diddled, it's the greens that were targeted.

jeez louise; howie lost to cuomo for gov? fancy that! as i understand it, he also started the green party, as well.

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12 users have voted.
EdMass's picture

@wokkamile

There are no serious candidates in Warren's debate. She gets a pass from the front runners in the second or is it the first of the 2 part first debate. How can you say that the debate in the first part is divided into 2 and there is no difference? This is (sorry) so rigged, I'm going nuts.

She'll just fire away at Trump and Biden and none of those losers can touch her.

DeBlasio? Really?

Tulsi needs to bring her A game...

They think we are all this stupid?

Maybe so.

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14 users have voted.

Help me Mr. Wizard!

Drizzle, Drazzle, Druzzle, Drome;
Time for this one to come home.

I am EdMass. I approve this message.

Stop the War!

On the Red Team, all historically important, some can also be counted as paragons of moral development and are an inspiration for anyone who values equality, social justice and human rights. They are the political saints and secular prophets who inspire us here. But, alas, they are all dead, some murdered, with no one of comparable stature to replace them, the movement they created is without visible leadership. We are on our own, for now.

For Team D, almost all are nearly fungible commodities held in the same portfolio traded by Investment Bankers, Oil Sheikhs and Global Currency speculators. A couple of them speak to the ideals the members of the first list once embodied. At best, aspirational leaders , perhaps for tomorrow. But, today, politics has no real giants. The first ones to grow in stature out of being a mere career politician has a fighting chance to change everything, if we let them. I'm not quite ready to give up on that wretched notion that we are not just lonely, helpless dots on this overheating orb.

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10 users have voted.

If we reach a point of arguing LOTE with any specific candidate, we not only have been sheep dogged, but branded and sheered.

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17 users have voted.
EdMass's picture

@MrWebster

Sheep were meant to be shorn.

Yes?

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6 users have voted.

Help me Mr. Wizard!

Drizzle, Drazzle, Druzzle, Drome;
Time for this one to come home.

I am EdMass. I approve this message.

Stop the War!

@EdMass I saw some sheep back in the past.

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3 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@MrWebster

I agree with you on this. What with the super delegates choosing the candidate (Warren, ByeDone or Kamillary) and the pentagon and Microsoft being in charge of the voting machines I see another rigged primary. Especially if the media doesn't do exit polls again. Remember how they weren't adding up last time so they just quit doing them.

No baa...

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11 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

thanatokephaloides's picture

  • Albert Einstein
  • Che Guevara
  • Rosa Luxemburg
  • Emma Goldman
  • George Orwell
  • Oscar Wilde
  • Nelson Mandela
  • V. I. Lenin
  • Mao Zedong
  • Malcolm X
  • Martin Luther King Jr. - Yep, he was a democratic socialist. History tends to gloss over the fact that many human rights activists and movements were actually linked to socialism and even communism. I like to call it ‘capitalist whitewashing’…
  • Leon Trotsky
  • Bertrand Russell
  • John Lennon
  • Pete Seeger

instead of:

Wednesday:

  • Booker
  • Castro
  • de Blasio
  • Delaney
  • Gabbard
  • Inslee
  • Klobuchar
  • O'Rourke
  • Warren

Thursday:

  • Biden
  • Bennet
  • Buttigieg
  • Gillibrand
  • Harris
  • Hickenlooper
  • Sanders
  • Swalwell
  • Williamson
  • Yang

??

(I know, I know, no longer alive, yadda yadda. But they'd still be a refreshing change from what we are going to get, n'est-ce pas ?)

Wink

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9 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

The Aspie Corner's picture

@thanatokephaloides

Martin Luther King Jr. - Yep, he was a democratic socialist. History tends to gloss over the fact that many human rights activists and movements were actually linked to socialism and even communism. I like to call it ‘capitalist whitewashing’…

After all, thanks to MLK and other activists, now everybody can be a greedy, imperialist psychopath...or so the capitalist piggies would have us believe. Course, I can't even get an entry level job anymore because they want management level qualifications and experience for minimum wage.

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2 users have voted.

Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.

Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.

thanatokephaloides's picture

Thursday:

  • Biden
  • Bennet
  • Buttigieg
  • Gillibrand
  • Harris
  • Hickenlooper
  • Sanders
  • Swalwell
  • Williamson
  • Yang

Biden, Bennett, Hickenlooper, and Sanders.

Send lawyers, guns and money: the shit has hit the fan! Smile

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4 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg