Larsen C Breaks Off from Antarctica

Submitted by The Wizard on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 2:00pm

An iceberg the size of Delaware with enough water to fill Lake Erie twice, about one trillion tons, just launched itself from Antarctica. The ice-shelf was floating and displaced its own weight in water and therefore will not raise global sea levels. However, it was the plug that kept land based ice from sliding into the ocean. When that happens, global sea levels will rise.

Here's the interesting quote from Dan McGrath, a glaciologist at Colorado State University.

“The Antarctic Peninsula has been one of the fastest warming places on the planet throughout the latter half of the 20th century. This warming has driven really profound environmental changes, including the collapse of Larsen A and B,” McGrath said. “But with the rift on Larsen C, we haven’t made a direct connection with the warming climate. Still, there are definitely mechanisms by which this rift could be linked to climate change, most notably through warmer ocean waters eating away at the base of the shelf.”

This is the usual scientist being conservative. Until he can address specific mechanisms linking global warming he can't make that connection. But we certainly can, after all what else could be causing this? The water temperature under the ice shelf has been increasing. Now with the ice gone that changes the albedo of that large area and it will absorb more solar radiation, an example of reinforcing positive feedback.

I have inside knowledge that Russia hacked the iceberg! That must be it.

Tags:

Larsen C

Global Climate Warming

russian hacking

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Comments

Submitted by Chaddiwicker on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 2:46pm

I'm ready for the world to

I'm ready for the world to end. Just make it painless, please.

Submitted by WoodsDweller on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 7:43pm

Painless might be too much to ask

@Chaddiwicker but you could hope for quick.

—

"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone

Submitted by Pricknick on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 3:54pm

Fun with math.

A gallon of water weighs 8.34 pounds.
Lake Michigan is estimated to hold 6 quadrillion gallons equaling 50.04 quadrillion pounds or roughly 25 trillion tons.
The new iceberg is roughly twice the size in mass as Lake Erie but is dwarfed by Lake Michigan.
I can see why many people are reporting that the iceberg is equivalent in mass to Lake Michigan. A short time in any search engine will give you many such examples.
I think it's a great lesson to many. Be very leery of what you read and report without doing the research.

—

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Submitted by UntimelyRippd on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 4:00pm

The error appears to have propagated from

@Pricknick
this business insider article, which now contains a correction.

—

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Submitted by Pricknick on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 4:18pm

There are several.

@UntimelyRippd
There were more than a handful of sites reporting this same erroneous information weeks before the insider posted it.
As I said, it's a valuable lesson in how some conduct research or don't even bother.

—

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Submitted by The Wizard on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 4:53pm

More fun with math

@Pricknick
Lake Michigan has an average depth of 279′
and an area of 22,394 mi²
That computes to a volume of 1.74 10^14 cu ft

Fresh water weighs 62.4lbs per cu ft.

For a total weight of 1.08 10^16 lbs

/2000 = 5.4 trillion tons of water for Lake Michigan

I did the same for Lake Erie = 0.55 trillion tons of water

And Larsen C = 1.288 trillion tons of water

So it's really "only" 1/4 the volume of Lake Michigan hardly enough to "fill" it

However it can fill lake Erie twice over with plenty to spare.

—

Capitalism has always been the rule of the people by the oligarchs. You only have two choices, eliminate them or restrict their power.

Submitted by Pricknick on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 6:09pm

I agree.

@The Wizard
My simpleton math is no match for yours.
Least you could do is change your remark about comparison to Lake Michigan.
Thanks.

—

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Submitted by The Wizard on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 9:21pm

Done !

@Pricknick

—

Capitalism has always been the rule of the people by the oligarchs. You only have two choices, eliminate them or restrict their power.

Submitted by Pricknick on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 9:48pm

Thanks.

@The Wizard

—

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Submitted by orlbucfan on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 5:37pm

This is human caused and very bad news.

Hopefully, more and more humans will get po'ed, and go to ecological war against the greedballs over it. I heard the warnings about climate change back in the late 1960s. Rec'd!!

—

Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.

Submitted by mhagle on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 7:08pm

The report I watched on YouTube a couple of days

ago that talked about the upcoming release of Larsen C, did not make the claim that the mass was the same as Lake Michigan. It said the geographical shape (birds eye view) was about the size and shape of Lake Michigan.

Is that part true?

My other question is, where is it going to go? Is it going to float out into the ocean and hit a bunch of ships?

???

—

Marilyn

"Make dirt, not war." eyo

Submitted by WoodsDweller on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 7:46pm

ships

@mhagle There is very little ship traffic in the southern ocean. The berg itself will probably break up into many pieces, some of them very large. They will float around for a while, even years, before melting away. We have satellites, radar, GPS, etc. It will be monitored and ships warned away.

—

Submitted by mhagle on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 9:45pm

Thanks

@WoodsDweller

for that info!

—

Marilyn

"Make dirt, not war." eyo

Submitted by The Voice In th... on Wed, 07/19/2017 - 9:45am

The Russians did it to destroy our submarines.

@mhagle @mhagle

And Trump told them to do it. /snark

—

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Submitted by WoodsDweller on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 7:55pm

Everybody thinks they're Perry Mason

and think they are trying a case in court.

"Officer Dinkle, did you take a sample from the alleged ice berg and send it to the lab?"

"Yes, sir, we put it in a little baggie and everything."

"And what did the lab report say?"

"Well, sir, they were unable to find any actual climate change fingerprints, only smudges, so it was inconclusive"

"Your honor, I rest my case. I move that all charges against my Big Carbon client be dismissed, and substantial oil leases be awarded as damages."

Loss of ice volume is what we expect as warming proceeds, and that occurs by means of events like this.

—

Submitted by eyo on Thu, 07/13/2017 - 4:54am

Blackrock, Blackstone, Blahblahblah

mexiconewsdaily yesterday: Consortium makes major oil discovery

Pablo Medina, a Latin America analyst at global energy research company Wood Mackenzie, said “it is one of the 15 largest shallow-water fields discovered globally in the last 20 years” and described the finding as “the most important achievement so far of Mexico’s energy reform.”

"Reform" meaning what was once public is now private, or heading that direction. Sounds familiar. What do you think will happen to all that light crude now? Welcome back new disco ball overlords!

Disco Inferno

Sierra Oil general manager Ivan Sandrea stated that the Mexican government would receive 69% of the profits from each barrel of oil produced by the new field, a figure that rises to almost 80% when taxes and contract fees are taken into account.
Sierra, backed by Blackrock Inc., Riverstone Holdings and EnCap Investments, has a 40% stake in the project, Talos 35% and Premier 25%.

The energy reform introduced by President Enrique Peña Nieto in 2013 is aimed at reversing Mexico’s declining oil production, which dropped to a 30-year low last year to an average 2.5 million barrels a day.

Oh.
...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackRock

The U.S. government contracted with BlackRock to help clean up after the financial meltdown of 2008. According to Vanity Fair, the financial establishment in Washington and on Wall Street believed BlackRock was the best choice for the job. In 2009, BlackRock first became the number 1 asset manager worldwide. In April 2009, BlackRock acquired R3 Capital Management, LLC and took control of the $1.5 billion fund. On 12 June 2009, Barclays sold its Global Investors unit (BGI), which included its exchange traded fund business, iShares, to BlackRock for US$13.5 billion. Through the deal, Barclays attained a near-20% stake in BlackRock. BGI was headquartered in San Francisco, with research and portfolio management teams in London, Sydney, Tokyo, Toronto, and other cities.

Barclays? Where have I heard that before? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libor_scandal. Oh yeah I remember now. Huh.
...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurence_D._Fink

In 1988, Fink co-founded BlackRock under the corporate umbrella of The Blackstone Group and became a Director and CEO of BlackRock. When BlackRock split from Blackstone in 1994, Fink retained his positions (as Director and CEO), which he continued to hold after BlackRock became more independent in 1998. His other positions at the company have included Chairman of the Board, Chairman of the Executive and Leadership Committees, Chair of Corporate Council, and Co-Chair of the Global Client committee. BlackRock went public in 1999.

Fink, you couldn't have a more descriptive name. I wonder if his friends call him "Rat" for short. lol Don't say Clinton.

So endeth my short trip through "BothSidesville", as the world burns.
peace

Submitted by The Voice In th... on Thu, 07/13/2017 - 11:26am

But if the Mexican people keep that field

@eyo

They get to keep 100% of the profit.

mexiconewsdaily yesterday: Consortium makes major oil discovery

Pablo Medina, a Latin America analyst at global energy research company Wood Mackenzie, said “it is one of the 15 largest shallow-water fields discovered globally in the last 20 years” and described the finding as “the most important achievement so far of Mexico’s energy reform.”

"Reform" meaning what was once public is now private, or heading that direction. Sounds familiar. What do you think will happen to all that light crude now? Welcome back new disco ball overlords!

Disco Inferno

Sierra Oil general manager Ivan Sandrea stated that the Mexican government would receive 69% of the profits from each barrel of oil produced by the new field, a figure that rises to almost 80% when taxes and contract fees are taken into account.

Sierra, backed by Blackrock Inc., Riverstone Holdings and EnCap Investments, has a 40% stake in the project, Talos 35% and Premier 25%.

The energy reform introduced by President Enrique Peña Nieto in 2013 is aimed at reversing Mexico’s declining oil production, which dropped to a 30-year low last year to an average 2.5 million barrels a day.

Oh.
...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackRock

The U.S. government contracted with BlackRock to help clean up after the financial meltdown of 2008. According to Vanity Fair, the financial establishment in Washington and on Wall Street believed BlackRock was the best choice for the job. In 2009, BlackRock first became the number 1 asset manager worldwide. In April 2009, BlackRock acquired R3 Capital Management, LLC and took control of the $1.5 billion fund. On 12 June 2009, Barclays sold its Global Investors unit (BGI), which included its exchange traded fund business, iShares, to BlackRock for US$13.5 billion. Through the deal, Barclays attained a near-20% stake in BlackRock. BGI was headquartered in San Francisco, with research and portfolio management teams in London, Sydney, Tokyo, Toronto, and other cities.

Barclays? Where have I heard that before? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libor_scandal. Oh yeah I remember now. Huh.
...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurence_D._Fink

In 1988, Fink co-founded BlackRock under the corporate umbrella of The Blackstone Group and became a Director and CEO of BlackRock. When BlackRock split from Blackstone in 1994, Fink retained his positions (as Director and CEO), which he continued to hold after BlackRock became more independent in 1998. His other positions at the company have included Chairman of the Board, Chairman of the Executive and Leadership Committees, Chair of Corporate Council, and Co-Chair of the Global Client committee. BlackRock went public in 1999.

Fink, you couldn't have a more descriptive name. I wonder if his friends call him "Rat" for short. lol Don't say Clinton.

So endeth my short trip through "BothSidesville", as the world burns.
peace

—

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Submitted by Hawkfish on Thu, 07/13/2017 - 8:25am

Renewables take a lot of land area

Speaking of math, here is a video I found the other day. The presenter (a physics professor) argues that the problem with renewables is their land footprint is huge. He not arguing against them, but (like me) he wants to make sure that everyone understands the math. This is especially important for countries that don't have a lot of land area.

I had a similar argument here about a year ago when it was announced that the San Luis Obispo nuclear plant was being decommissioned. The article picture was an overhead shot and one of our locals marveled at all the tidal power at the base. I did the math and explained that to replace that station with tidal power you would have to replace the entire California coast with a big tidal station to generate the same amount of electricity.

There are no easy answers here. Anyone who tells you there are is selling something.

—

We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg

Submitted by Song of the lark on Thu, 07/13/2017 - 8:35am

I live in the shadow of Diablo canyon

@Hawkfish and I for one say tear it down. It was a greedy misguided grifting non accountable externallities lie from the beginning. PG&E was charging me up to 66 cents a kilowatt for day use at my book store for years.

Submitted by eyo on Thu, 07/13/2017 - 8:51am

"Californians are paying billions for power they don't need"

@Hawkfish
http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-electricity-capacity/

We're using less electricity. Some power plants have even shut down. So why do state officials keep approving new ones?

California has a big — and growing — glut of power, an investigation by the Los Angeles Times has found. The state’s power plants are on track to be able to produce at least 21% more electricity than it needs by 2020, based on official estimates. And that doesn’t even count the soaring production of electricity by rooftop solar panels that has added to the surplus.

To cover the expense of new plants whose power isn’t needed — Colusa, for example, has operated far below capacity since opening — Californians are paying a higher premium to switch on lights or turn on electric stoves. In recent years, the gap between what Californians pay versus the rest of the country has nearly doubled to about 50%.

This translates into a staggering bill. Although California uses 2.6% less electricity annually from the power grid now than in 2008, residential and business customers together pay $6.8 billion more for power than they did then. The added cost to customers will total many billions of dollars over the next two decades, because regulators have approved higher rates for years to come so utilities can recoup the expense of building and maintaining the new plants, transmission lines and related equipment, even if their power isn’t needed.

http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-electricity-capacity-graphic/
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."

Submitted by Hawkfish on Fri, 07/14/2017 - 8:41am

Power trading

@eyo Up here in the Pacific Northwest, California tech companies like google and Facebook (plus local ones like Amazon) are building data centers out in eastern Washington to be near our massive hydro plants like grand coolee. So it's not clear to me that The article accounts for all California energy consumption.

I think the solar push in California is great, and having a surplus to sell to other places nearby is not a bad thing (although California's neighbors are apparently leery of economic hegemony in the power sector). But much as the locals might like to think so, California is not a closed system, and we have to look at these problems on a larger scale.

—

We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg

Submitted by Song of the lark on Thu, 07/13/2017 - 8:26am

Yes Mexico has peaked. But a billion barrels is

What about 12 days in global oil use to put it in perpective. Oil discoveries are on a forty year down trend. Thermodynamic collapse already gripping us by the short hairs.
As for that glacier. Get some of those big diesel burning ships and push it over here to California we're perennially short of fresh water.

Submitted by eyo on Thu, 07/13/2017 - 9:13am

No Air Support without Ground Support

@Song of the lark thanks, I guess the same goes for Sea, without Ground Support nothin' moves. Right arm.

Respect the penguin

McMurdo Station 2006
...
Penguin, Depressed... Werner Herzog

"stand still and let him go on his way"
thanks