From the official transcripts of the DNC lawsuit

http://jampac.us/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/042517cw2.pdf

I read through it all and thought I’d post some of the more interesting parts.

The DNC lawyers (hereafter referred to simply as The DNC.) try to argue that the court has no right to judge how they enforce internal rules.

THE COURT:
You’re talking about the DNC’s charter
now.
MR. SPIVA:
Yes, their bylaws, which is where this
purported obligation arises to remain neutral as between the
candidates.
THE COURT:
Article V, Section 4.

The DNC says their duty to conduct a free and fair election is a “purported obligation”.

The plaintiffs lawyers (hereafter referred to as The American People) shoot that argument down completely:

in Madigan vs. Illinois, a 2006
opinion from the Supreme Court, the Court held:
“Consistent with our precedent and the First
Amendment, states may maintain fraud actions when
fundraisers make false or misleading representations
designed to deceive donors about how their donations
are used.”

Furthermore:

This is not a case about enforcing political promises.
They want you to think that, I believe, because they want to
paint this case in a line of cases that have been filed
throughout the years where candidates may make political
promises, and then disappointed voters bring lawsuits to
enforce those promises or seek damages in one form or another.
But that’s not what this case is about. We’re not talking
about campaign rhetoric. We’re not talking about a campaign
platform of any kind.
What we’re talking about here is the very core of what
our democracy runs on, the very basis for our democracy, which
is the conduct of free and fair elections.
That’s the basis,
that’s the bedrock on which the claims of this case take off,
because the election — the elections — as American history
has developed, the conduct of those elections, for better or
worse, has come under the domain of the two major political
parties in this country.

And then The American People address the real reason the Democrats want you to get all riled up about Russian intervention and take your eyes off of the Real Ball:

I just think the context of when this complaint was
drafted is important. We drafted this complaint and filed it
in June of 2016, which was before the DNC primary — or the DNC
convention occurred in July. And, at the time, the evidence
that we had access to consisted of this set of documents that

your Honor referenced in your prefatory remarks that were
released by a figure named Guccifer 2.0.
And the core document that was released by that
individual on that website purports to be an internal DNC
memorandum, which outlines a strategy for advancing Hillary
Clinton to the nomination of the Democratic Party before the
primaries had even really gotten off the ground. And this was
at a time — you know, Bernie Sanders I believe had announced
for about a month before this particular memo came out. But we
think that’s clear evidence of what the DNC’s intent was
throughout the primary process. It was to leverage their
connections with the media in order to advance Hillary
Clinton’s candidacy at the expense of everybody else.

These additional leaks have shown that DNC officials
participated in creating and disseminating media narratives to
undermine Bernie Sanders and advance Hillary Clinton.
It shows former DNC Chair Donna Brazile giving debate

questions in advance to Hillary Clinton during the primaries.
It shows the DNC at one point changing its donor
policies specifically to favor Hillary Clinton.
It shows the scheduling of debates to favor Hillary
Clinton over Bernie Sanders.
It shows, in general, the DNC pouring its considerable
resources and relationships into propelling Hillary Clinton to
the nomination.

And then the judge makes The DNC look like unprepared idiots:

THE COURT:
Does the DNC help to fund the state
primaries?
MR. SPIVA:
Uhm, you mean literally, the mechanics of
the primaries, your Honor, the actual holding of the election,
the primary election?
THE COURT:
Does the DNC, with the money that it
raises, use some of that money to help fund the states put on
their individual state primaries?
MR. SPIVA:
I don’t believe so, your Honor. No.
THE COURT:
But you don’t know.

And then The DNC alleges it has the inherent right to fix elections:

The party could have favored a candidate. Even if it were true, that’s the business
of the party,
and it’s not justiciable.
THE COURT:
All right. Thank you, Counsel.
MR. SPIVA:
Thank you. And I’m happy to answer —
THE COURT:
Oh, no, I’ve got more questions.

And then the judge hands it over to The American People to slam dunk The DNC:

THE COURT:
What does the plaintiff say on the
operational aspect of the DNC?
MR. BECK:
Well, your Honor, I’m shocked to hear that
we can’t define what it means to be evenhanded and impartial.
If that were the case, we couldn’t have courts. I mean, that’s
what courts do every day, is decide disputes in an evenhanded
and impartial manner.

I think that’s why the Democratic National Committee has it in
its charter, because if you don’t have the organization that is
responsible for organizing in this very large sense the
nominating process for president, which entails multiple
elections in every state of the union, if you’re not evenhanded
and impartial, then you don’t have a democratic process
. I
think it’s that simple.

And then we get into the whole gist of what is a democracy and what constitutes fraud.

THE COURT:
Let me ask counsel. If a person is fraudulently
induced to donate to a charitable organization, does he have
standing to sue the person who induced the donation?

The DNC tries to weasel out of giving a direct answer to the question and instead addresses other hypothetical situations other than what the judge asked. The judge then allows The American People their reaction to The DNC’s response and this is what they had to say:

THE COURT:
First, your response to their answers.
MR. BECK:
Yes. And I’ll take the last part first,
which was the question your Honor had posed, is there — and
I’m paraphrasing it, but is there a material difference between
a campaign promise, such as “read my lips, no new taxes,” and
representations that are made in the DNC’s own charter?
And, quite frankly, if what defendant — or what the
DNC has just said is true — and I really hope it’s not true,
but if what he said is true, then I think it’s a really sad day
for democracy in this country. Because what essentially the
DNC has now stated in a court of law is that it believes that
there is no enforceable obligation to run the primary elections
of this country’s democracy in a fair and impartial manner.
And if that’s the case — and I think counsel just said it himself — then really, you know, the sky’s the limit

in terms of what the DNC and any party, for that matter, can
do.

After a few hours of wrangling over jurisdictional issues and so on, I found this to be quite interesting:

(The American People)

it just doesn’t make sense to me why
somebody would participate in a political process by paying
money into the process, when they knew that that process was
rigged from the start, which is what we’re alleging.

To which The DNC replies:

I think actually the opposite conclusion is more
logical and certainly apparent, that you would to try to beat
the system, if you viewed it as rigged.

The DNC tried to say that there can’t be a class action because:

we would still have the right, your Honor, to challenge each
class member’s standing. Did they rely on statements of the
DNC? Did they even know about them? Would they have not given
if they had known? Same with the Sanders subclass. Same with
the third subclass.

To which The American People replied:

MR. BECK:
Again, I think that — I think,
fundamentally, people give money to candidates and can — and
political parties, because they believe that we have a fair
democratic process. And I think that that’s a baseline
assumption whenever a donation is made.

I think that there’s a fundamental understanding in
this country that’s taught from a very early age, certainly I
remember it, that we live in a democracy. And I think a
fundamental part of what a democracy means is that elections
are not conducted in this biased and predetermined way.
And I
think that everybody who seeks to participate in the political
process, especially when they’re going to the trouble of
cutting a check to a candidate that they support or a party
that they support, they believe that those candidates and
entities are taking place in a process that is fair and impartial,

because they believe in a process that’s democratic.
So, I don’t think someone necessarily needs to read
the articles we’ve cited or the charter to be in the class of
people that have been defrauded or deceived or unjustly treated
in terms of the unjust enrichment claim by the DNC’s conduct.

And in their closing statements, The American People stated:

If it’s the case that an entity, the DNC, its
chairperson can rig an election, and there’s no remedy at law
for people who’ve made financial contributions on the basis of
what they’ve omitted to tell the public, well, I submit that
that’s a really dire road for this country to be on.

Then the judge closed the proceedings with this statement:

This is a
very interesting case, to say the least. And counsel for the
plaintiffs spoke about whether or not our society — these are
the Court’s words, not his words, he did not use the word
“society” — but whether society is in a dire situation. And
so I leave the lawyers with this. Democracy demands the truth
so people can make intelligent decisions.

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67 users have voted.

Comments

joe shikspack's picture

i don't believe for a second that the dnc's legal team was the least bit unprepared, though their responses to the judge's question about the relationship of the dnc and the state parties might have made them look foolish.

as i understand it, the law firm (perkins coie) representing the dnc in this action have been active in the process all through the primaries and beyond. one of perkins coie's lawyers (marc elias) was also hillary's campaign attorney.

the idea that there would be any lack of knowledge about how the dnc related to the state parties (or the arrangement of the hillary victory fund and dnc with the state parties for that matter) is absolutely laughable.

that perkins coie lawyer (spiva) was clearly dodging the questions and mocking the court and the process.

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43 users have voted.

@joe shikspack @joe shikspack of course he was prepared. What I stated was that the judge made him look unprepared, not that he was unprepared. He was quite prepared to look like an unprepared idiot. The alternative not being acceptable.
Which goes to show how deep in shit these lawyers really are.

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25 users have voted.
Centaurea's picture

@joe shikspack Perkins Coie is the law firm that the DNC uses for most of its legal needs. The relationship between Perkins Coie and the DNC is longstanding.

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12 users have voted.

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep." ~Rumi

gulfgal98's picture

whether or not a private organization has the right to control what should be a democratic process.

This link is very helpful in defining the answers to that question.

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26 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West "...isn't the problem here that the government takes on, arbitrarily and without justification, an adversarial attitude towards its citizenry?" ~CantStopthe Signal

gulfgal98's picture

@gulfgal98 and seen from Jared Beck's posts on Twitter (yes, I follow), he is a real bulldog who believes fully in this lawsuit.

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23 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West "...isn't the problem here that the government takes on, arbitrarily and without justification, an adversarial attitude towards its citizenry?" ~CantStopthe Signal

Alligator Ed's picture

@gulfgal98 They propose that a private organization can do what they want. This is certainly true in many instances. But when a private organization has adopted public bylaws for all to read, then they are bound to it. Such a posting is in fact a contract, a contract to be fair and impartial. This is a fiduciary duty. Had they not posted such bylaws, then their spurious arguments would have had more impact. The analogy I like, although a bit removed from this case, is the Melendez brothers seeking clemency for the murder of their parents because they are orphans.

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21 users have voted.
TheOtherMaven's picture

@Alligator Ed
and is in fact the classical definition of the term. Biggrin

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11 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

SnappleBC's picture

@Alligator Ed

I've run non-profits which, I grant, are not the same. But we had by-laws and those by-laws specifically were required to exist in order to protect those who donated money and time to our cause. Yes, we did in fact have to operate by them. The penalty for failing to do so was to lose our non-profit charter.

And you know, at this point it hardly even matters if they win or lose the case. They've already stated their position. People like my family wouldn't care if they lost... they don't seem to care about anything beyond what the legacy media tells them to care about. People who are more awake already know unequivocally where the DNC stands.

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12 users have voted.

Just to get this out of the way, Yes, I'm a plant from DKOS paid for by the DNC

Wink's picture

@gulfgal98
@SnappleBC
the DNC is hosed. Her is next.

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5 users have voted.

On the radio at netrootsradio.com On Twitter @winkradio. All about building progressive media. (-1.9 / -1.9)

Wink's picture

@gulfgal98 n/t

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4 users have voted.

On the radio at netrootsradio.com On Twitter @winkradio. All about building progressive media. (-1.9 / -1.9)

shaharazade's picture

@gulfgal98 that was a great summary of the transcript. I have a twitter account but do not use it unless some one links to or post tweets. My brain is full enough with political chattering without piling twitter feeds on top of everything else flowing into it via the internet. This thread was however succinct, informative and worthwhile.

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3 users have voted.

Democratic town hall meetings, quoting some of the more outlandish statements made by the DNC lawyers, and then asking the congressperson whether they agree or disagree with the DNC lawyer's statements.

And by the way, check out this short (0:47) clip of DWS.

I will be frank with you. If I was trying to rig the outcome of the primary, trust me, I could have — there are so many things that we, not I, we could have done to enhance the campaign of one candidate over another.

Isn't that exactly what happened? It wasn't just DWS doing everything. She was conspiring with other staffers within the DNC and outside the organization as well (like the media)

It wasn't just collusion. It was a conspiracy. That's what they ought to be charged with. Conspiracy.

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39 users have voted.

@LoneStarMike RICO charges should be brought down on them.

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36 users have voted.

@LoneStarMike @LoneStarMike I'd like to see Tom Perez asked if he agrees or disagrees with the notion that he has no obligation to run fair and impartial primaries.

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31 users have voted.

@Dopeman

"Diversity and being inclusive is our party's greatest strength. We believe in the notion that everyone deserves an equal opportunity. When we lead with our values, we win. When we lead with our actions we succeed. We just need to improve our technique in order to get our message out that we must unite against Trump."

In other words - a big fat word salad.

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29 users have voted.
Alligator Ed's picture

@LoneStarMike Scratch one-s head

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9 users have voted.

@Alligator Ed

"We lead with our values and we lead with our actions. We need to talk to them about how literally hours into the Trump administration, he was a fraud. He made it harder for first time home-buyers to buy a home hours into his administration. Days later he made it harder to save for retirement. He nominates a judge for the Supreme Court who wants to eviscerate collective bargaining.

When we lead with our value as Democrats, and talk about what we've done to make sure we're protecting social security, protecting Medicare, growing good jobs in this economy. If you want good jobs elect a Democrat. That is the message we have to communicate. A message that is true that resonates in every zip code and that's what we're going to be doing all across this nation, leading with our values, leading with the facts and that facts are that Democrats grow the middle-class, Democrats protect economic security, and we need to be communicating that message everywhere.

I assume his answer about the DNC lawsuit would be similar.

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15 users have voted.
Centaurea's picture

@LoneStarMike Tom Perez doesn't strike me as much of a creative dude.

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11 users have voted.

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep." ~Rumi

Alligator Ed's picture

@Centaurea You know, the ones Hillary's team gives him.

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15 users have voted.
Lily O Lady's picture

@LoneStarMike

Values? What values? This election cycle were heard from John Lewis that Democrats don't want "free stuff" like a college education which currently can condemn the student to a lifetime of financial servitude. We heard that there is a special place in Hell for women who didn't vote for Hillary Clinton. Does Perez mean values like those? Because they are values that I, as a former lifelong Democrat, do not recognize.

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23 users have voted.

"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

Eagles92's picture

@Lily O Lady Dog, I'm so sick of all of them. (One of the many reasons I've been offline for so long ... had to take a giant step back).

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8 users have voted.
SnappleBC's picture

@Lily O Lady

Of course I didn't vote Democratic. I'm a liberal.

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12 users have voted.

Just to get this out of the way, Yes, I'm a plant from DKOS paid for by the DNC

Lily O Lady's picture

@SnappleBC

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9 users have voted.

"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

lotlizard's picture

@Lily O Lady  
In the early days, there were a few people posting here who, every single time, would act as if they’d never heard anyone use the term “neoliberal“ before. They’d make everyone explain over and over where the term came from and why it was different from just plain “liberal” without the “neo,” and on and on. The claim might even be raised that terms like “neoliberal” and “neocon” are actually veiled ethnic slurs.

It seemed like deliberate obfuscation. It was so frustrating. Nice that we’re further down the road now.

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3 users have voted.

@Lily O Lady

They value money, the more the better. And they value those who can pay them the big bucks to drain everyone and everything else to further enrich those already having having drained most - and who will pass a cut of that along to their political proxies.

They value humanity according the monetary value they can potentially receive from them - not the bits from the victims with little, but the ones who they ensure will get that little and accumulate a lot more thereby, eventually leaving the valueless 99% with nothing.

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1 user has voted.
Wink's picture

@LoneStarMike
"It's our party, and the 99% ain't invited."
Thank you all for coming, and remember... get those contributions in early and oftern! Thank you all so much!

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8 users have voted.

On the radio at netrootsradio.com On Twitter @winkradio. All about building progressive media. (-1.9 / -1.9)

@LoneStarMike
how did the words come out of her mouth? lol.

please let them put her on the stand.

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8 users have voted.

@LoneStarMike
Lol, and this while their own emails and their own words are out there, showing what pathological liars, as well as cheats, they are. You can fool some of the people some of the time, but can they still fool enough of the people for a plausible 'correct' corporate candidate win, if they are once made aware that a better alternative is finally available and is - despite the propaganda - viable? They went for Bernie - and Bernie somehow managed to ensure that the ideas and contrast are finally visible in the corporate media and townhalls, where even the corporate-media restricted can really see the difference. Much to the corporate Dems disgust.

Of course, TPTB are unworried right now because TPTB will run every aspect of the electoral infrastructure - including voter registration - through Homeland Security and there has not yet been a really major, general public fuss about that.

Why not? Because the bulk of the public are generally not aware of that, any more than they are of the 'legalization' of government propaganda to be used against them and even those who have been informed of such things often continue to speak of electoral change without mentioning this or considering such as these as factors, along with the fact that evidence and information regarding elections has been isolated to Top Secret Homeland Security and what's only described as 'interested private parties' who can attend meetings/discussions with HS (not the public, from whom electoral information can now be withheld on the grounds of 'National Security') and therefore the 'interested private parties' have access to details and decision-making, while any hope of citizen/independent oversight of elections has been neatly eliminated.

And there is the potential for the questioning/protest of highly questionable election results, or of public concerns over what's become now-routine electoral fraud, to be made illegal, under the claim of 'National Security'. Or of 'Fake News/Foreign Propaganda' because 'we have always been at war with Eastasia/Russia/Somalia' and 'they hacked the election and made Hillary lose last time and only Eastasia/Russia/Somalia spies would cast doubt on governmental pronouncements'. No more Habeus Corpus, and kidnapping citizens to hold them incognito's OK, while slave labour and torture are 'legal'.

If there's not even a public uproar about any of this now, why should they worry?

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0 users have voted.

2015 Mid Year Report
(Covers July 1 through December 31, 2015)

  • 12/31/2015 - payment for $15,015.75 (Page 108)
  • 09/11/205 - payment for $15,000 (Page 261)
  • 12/30/2016 - payment for $30,000 (Page 279)

April Quarterly Report
(Covers Jan 1 through March 31, 2016)

  • 02/12/2016 - payment for $15,000 (Page 12)
  • 03/22/2106 - payment for $15,000 (Page 168)

July Quarterly Report
(Covers April 1 through June 30, 2016)

  • 04/26/2016 - payment for $15,000 (Page 13)

At the end of that Quarter, Correct the Record showed that they still had a balance due to Perkins Coie of $30,102.23 (Page 273)

October Quarterly Report (Amended)
(Covers July 1 through September 30, 2016)

  • 08/01/2016 - payment for $15,000 (Page 171)
  • 08/02/2016 - payment for $15,102.23 (Page 138)
  • 08/15/2016 - payment for $15,000 (Page 171)
  • 09/26/2016 - payment for $30,034.43 (Page 163)

So the first two payments add up to what was owed Perkins Coie at the end of Q3, and then you have two additional payments totaling $45,034.43. But if you scroll down to Page 282 It shows that at the beginning of the Quarter, $30,102.23 was owed. Then it shows Amount Incurred This Period - $0.00. And then it shows Outstanding Balance at Close of This Period - $0.00.

Shouldn't the Amount Incurred This Period be $45,034.43?

Year End Report (Amended)
(Covers October 1 through December 31, 2016)

  • 12/16/2016 - payment for $15,060.48 (Page 11)
  • 12/021/2016 - payment for $15,018.64 (Page 15)
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26 users have voted.
detroitmechworks's picture

"if the system is rigged, you'd try to bribe officials" of course assumes that everybody has lots of disposable income to give to politicians.

It's also incredibly Banana Republic thinking. And I mean the kind of Republic set up by us to make certain a corporation keeps their overseas profits.

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33 users have voted.

I don't Blame Christians. I Blame Stupid. Which Sadly, is a much more popular religion these days.

Centaurea's picture

@detroitmechworks He didn't specifically refer to bribery, just to "beating the system".

I think actually the opposite conclusion is more
logical and certainly apparent, that you would to try to beat
the system, if you viewed it as rigged.

That comment by the DNC lawyer was astounding to me. I think it says everything about him, and nothing about Bernie's supporters or the voting public in general. The fact that he apparently assumes that everyone operates the way he does is quite narcissistic.

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24 users have voted.

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep." ~Rumi

@Centaurea
testimony from some of the more indigent contributors to Bernie's campaign.

I couldn't afford it and sent him money.

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23 users have voted.
Eagles92's picture

@gustogirl I sent it in $27 chunks or less ($5 here, $10 there), and all told, it added up to a little more than $700 dollars. That's a lot of money in my world. Pardon the profanity, but fuck the DNC.

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13 users have voted.
Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@Centaurea

Why donate to the candidate you know the election is rigged against?

That's like betting on a fighter you know is about to take a dive.

Even assuming you know you are playing in a corrupt game, how do you "beat the system" by donating to the loser?

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18 users have voted.

I am waiting for you, Vizzini.

detroitmechworks's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger You'd Donate to the WINNER.

Since they didn't donate to Hillary, clearly they didn't think the system was rigged.

So, therefore, The system is not rigged because it fooled people into thinking it wasn't rigged.

Anything they say about it NOW has no bearing on what they believed they were donating to at the time. As we all know, intent matters. The intent of those individual voters was to give to a system they did not at the time believe was rigged. When it didn't come out like they thought because of not understanding the system, THEN they complained it was rigged.

They could have saved us all a lot of time and voiced these concerns at the proper time, to the proper authorities. That of course, would be the people who they claim rigged the system. Since they didn't at that time, they have no grounds or standing to complain about an activity they willingly participated in.

Therefore, this whole thing is a nothingburger, and we need to get back to the process of winning elections.

/TOPrebuttal

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19 users have voted.

I don't Blame Christians. I Blame Stupid. Which Sadly, is a much more popular religion these days.

Centaurea's picture

@detroitmechworks The DNC lawyer stated several times that he knew (didn't just surmise, but *knew*) that many, if not most, Bernie donors do not feel cheated and do not want their money back. "Many Bernie donors went on to support Hillary in the general. That proves they don't feel cheated by the DNC."

Hard to know whether that's just lawyerly twisting of logic or whether he really thinks that way. Unfortunately, I have a feeling it may be the latter.

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11 users have voted.

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep." ~Rumi

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@detroitmechworks

You did that much better than the DNC attorneys.

This bit is quite philosophical actually:

The system is not rigged because it fooled people into thinking it wasn't rigged.

So IOW, if an election is rigged in the forest, and noone is there to see it rigged, was it really rigged?

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10 users have voted.

I am waiting for you, Vizzini.

lotlizard's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger  
As long as no one could see inside the DNC box, the primary both was and wasn’t rigged.

But then that darn Seth Rich or the Russians or whoever hadda go and let the public open the DNC box and look inside, causing the wave function (the money tsunami?) to collapse into the “rigged” state.

4-D chess is out and quantum physics is in. Ommm mani padme hum, the Zuckerberg uncertainty principle, yadda yadda.

The primary wasn’t really, truly, and conclusively rigged until the public opened the box! It’s the public’s fault for opening the box!

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4 users have voted.
shaharazade's picture

@detroitmechworks Loudly. How about when the DNC in conjunction with the state and local Dem. party disenfranchised voters by messing with their voter registration and giving them provisional ballots? Ask Dammit Janet and all the people who were unable to vote or have their vote be counted if this was rigged. How is that not fraud? I watched the rigged Dem. primary go down. How about the Democratic convention itself. It was more then just politics it was a scary exercise in fascism and blatantly rigged. I believe that Bernie like Trump was in on the whole farce. I'm glad enough people saw what was going down.

IMO the only good thing to come out of this flagrant anti-democratic fiasco was the fact that the 'people' did not buy into their arrogant rigging and The Mad Bomber lost. The DNC's argument that all's fair in regards to political lying is another example of how our electoral system and all our democratic systems. The separation of powers checks-balances and the rule of law are gone daddy gone. My lying eyes told me that on every level this was a farce not a primary election. The DNC/Podesta e-mails confirmed what I saw happening in the primary.

Since Bush vs. Gore and the abominable CU, we have not had a valid election in this country. We're back to the good old Tammany Hall days writ large. People are just not this stupid with the advent of the internet. This fraud and corruption of a democracy occurs on every level as the complicit duopoly controls the voting process from county,city/state right up up to national. Justice? Forget about it. All we the people get is fear and the Russian thing.

I donated to Bernie and could not afford it. I supported him not because I believed he was going to take the party back but because he engendered and gave voice to people who wanted a real democracy and some representation. They stood up and said enough is enough. Now we've got all these phony Democratic resistance movement orgs. and people are chicken little'ing out because Trump's wrapping his arms around the evil empire Russia/Trump. My god how many times will people fall for and believe that this country has a democratic electoral system.

This post partisan election display is disgusting. It's hard to get all worked up about the Republicans when the loyal opposition is as godawful as the evil Reds. The DNC is at it again with this latest round of fear mongering and culture war loathing. Socially liberal my ass. Where's some real obstruction? The global oligarchy and the neoliberal lap dog media is doing the same damn thing to Corbyn. I don't blame Bernie personally that's pointless at this point. Loving or hating pols is stupid. He's always been part of the Dem. establishment and believes in the two party system.

I did like what the judge and the plaintiff lawyer had to say. Once again my only hope is that these fuckers have will go too far in their arrogance and the people will withdraw their consent to be governed by this lot of global thugs and war criminals, including Bernie. Why ordinary people at this point still react politically with such misplaced fear of 'the other' is beyond me.

Meanwhile the owners of the place and their puppet pols are turning up the heat on humans and the planet and we sit here and argue about a corrupt 'electoral' arm of the oligarchical duopoly and watch the internecine side show and root for our team cause the sicko clown Putin owns won. So when we get crazy clown Trump impeached and the bible trumping maniac is pres. what then? Me I want by 1,600$ back from the Obama election. Since when does bickering over internal rules of a political party's org. trump a shamelessly rigged and useless election?

Excuse my long rant here but man o man we need to drive a stake through the Democratic party's heart and bury this zombie party once and for all.

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4 users have voted.
gulfgal98's picture

@shaharazade

Excuse my long rant here but man o man we need to drive a stake through the Democratic party's heart and bury this zombie party once and for all.

Excellent rant! Good

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2 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West "...isn't the problem here that the government takes on, arbitrarily and without justification, an adversarial attitude towards its citizenry?" ~CantStopthe Signal

@Centaurea

Lol, if they're stupid enough to throw money at a rigged system, there might be a way for the 99% to get their money back.

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0 users have voted.

counsel. Just pathetic.
No codes, rules, statues, no case law cited, and this is what our democracy might just well hang on?
The Judge appears to be the only one who understands what is hanging in the balance.
I have listened to lawyers arguing over
breach of contract and made arguments myself in cases involving less than $10,000 that were more cogent.
My county is 21,000 people.
I am ashamed of this.

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14 users have voted.
Alligator Ed's picture

@on the cusp isn't fraud a well-known precept in common law. What about fiduciary duty. Please explain how the rebuttal against the motion to dismiss could be improved according to your critique.

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14 users have voted.
SnappleBC's picture

@Alligator Ed

Mixed in among the wizards and gods there's a lot of thought given to the nature of barbarianism, civilization, human nature, and for that matter, the nature of life itself. One of his quotes is from a barbarian who is none too impressed with civilization. He says

Lawyers, those whose job it is to subvert justice.

I don't agree with that in all cases, but it's abundantly clear that our judicial system as a whole has little to do with justice.

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9 users have voted.

Just to get this out of the way, Yes, I'm a plant from DKOS paid for by the DNC

PriceRip's picture

@on the cusp

          No codes, rules, statues, no case law cited, ...

          I have seen this lack of understanding of one's discipline with some in the sciences as well as in the legal profession. For example, I know of a judge that was dumb-founded by the antics of a lawyer just recently. Is this becoming a thing. Are there really an increasing number of professionals that don't understand the fundamentals of their disciplines. Or is a small sample size, and I hope this is the case, creating a confirmation bias on my part.

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15 users have voted.

"I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert J. McCloskey, U.S. State Department spokesman. From a press briefing during the Vietnam war.

Centaurea's picture

@on the cusp @on the cusp I don't believe that's a fair criticism of the lawyers. This hearing was not the place for an in-depth discussion of the laws pertaining to the merits of the plaintiffs' case.

The time for substantive legal arguments will arrive later on, as the lawsuit proceeds.

This was a hearing on the DNC's Motion to Dismiss, which is a procedural motion. The rules that govern this kind of motion are the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure.

If you read the first portion of the transcript, you'll see lengthy discussion of the rules applicable to the DNC's motion. That's what all the references to 12(b)6 and so on were about.

When the judge makes his decision on the Motion to Dismiss, the decision has to be based on the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. Not on the substantive legal merits of the case. If he denies the motion and DNC appeals, he wants his decision to stand on appeal.

It appears that the judge did use this hearing as an opportunity to "feel out" both parties as to what the case is about. But the discussion about impartiality, DNC charter, etc., does not control his decision on the Motion to Dismiss.

(To note, Jared Beck did bring up quite a bit of case law during his replies to the judge's questions.)

[Edited for clarity]

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25 users have voted.

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep." ~Rumi

PriceRip's picture

@Centaurea

          While all this is far outside my area of expertise, I am picking up a lot of Law Knowledge from my favorite Assistant District Attorney. Hence, I am slowly building a foundation for understanding court procedures applicable to her experiences.

          Thank you for adding this to my basic understanding.

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9 users have voted.

"I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert J. McCloskey, U.S. State Department spokesman. From a press briefing during the Vietnam war.

Centaurea's picture

@PriceRip The thing to keep in mind is that Wilding v. DNC (and DWS) is complex litigation brought in federal court, and it's a class action, which further complicates matters.

That old saying "The mills of the gods grind slowly, but they grind exceeding fine" could have been created for this kind of lawsuit. Hopefully, the "grinding exceedingly fine" part will apply to Judge Zloch. I get the feeling he wants this case to proceed, but he's got to make that happen in ways that will stand on appeal.

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6 users have voted.

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep." ~Rumi

DNC Fraud Lawsuit

Thanks for this article about the DNC. It sounds like the major environmental organizations who are really working for corporations, not for us.

I don't spend time on face book, but it looks like updates and other coverage.

Have you considering posting this on that Facebook page? My hunch is that there wold be a fairly large audience for the summary in this article.

Did you hear, Hillary the Wonderful, is going to lead the dems out of the swamp

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18 users have voted.
Alligator Ed's picture

@DonMidwest

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24 users have voted.
CB's picture

@Alligator Ed
out of your mouth afterwards?

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9 users have voted.
SparkyGump's picture

@CB

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5 users have voted.

You don't have to like the truth for it to be true

Strife Delivery's picture

@Alligator Ed Going to admit you're one of my fav reasons I come on this site hahahaha.

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12 users have voted.

@Alligator Ed @Alligator Ed

Ooooo, and it's BLUE! I guess it turns red after swallowing Hillary's shit?

Edit: if that's a self-portrait, remember to spit out the part that auto-plays the Republican stuff! Might not be very filling without it, but I can't imagine you being full of shit...

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1 user has voted.
Alligator Ed's picture

@Ellen North

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gulfgal98's picture

@DonMidwest We will be posting links to this essay at both locations today.

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10 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West "...isn't the problem here that the government takes on, arbitrarily and without justification, an adversarial attitude towards its citizenry?" ~CantStopthe Signal

@DonMidwest @DonMidwest

How else would she get them to the slaughterhouse?

Edit: silly me, was somehow thinking of the voting Dems who need to be brought to be rendered down before the corporate Dems are led out to attend the feast...

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0 users have voted.
Big Al's picture

Democratic party and Bernie Sanders. It's clear they, and Bernie "the Sheepdog" Sanders, deceived those who donated to Bernie's presidential campaign, making them believe he/Bernie actually had a chance when the democratic party leadership, and Bernie, knew full well that was pure bullshit.
They should be made to be ashamed of themselves. Then we can do it again in 2020.

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14 users have voted.
Alligator Ed's picture

@Big Al @Big Al

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11 users have voted.
Big Al's picture

@Alligator Ed and learned, he knew the deal when he signed up. I remember pointing that out, as did others. The dude's been around, it's naïve imo to think he doesn't know how things work, especially when it came to Hillary Clinton in the last election.

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13 users have voted.

@Big Al The moment he said he didn't care about the Damn Emails I got the distinct feeling that Bernie didn't want to win and or knew he wouldn't win. Imo a legit candidate would have never let her off the hook so easily, and his actions since speak for themselves.

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14 users have voted.

@pro left

O'Malley was ready to give HRC trouble & Bernie rode to the rescue.

It really seemed an odd mistake at the time.

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10 users have voted.

@pro left @pro left

I got the impression that he wanted to get back on the long-neglected issues directly affecting the long-neglected American public; Bernie got the issues brought up in public because he could not be got off them, by hook or by crook. And a lot of crooks tried to hook him off them.

Bernie doesn't do 'personalities', he does issues.

Edit: it was taken as a defense of Hillary, but especially with the tone and phrasing ("Nobody cares about your damn emails" felt to me like: "Lets get on what needs to be done for suffering people before more people die!" as in life-long typical Bernie,) it seemed to me that he didn't want debate time wasted on anything that couldn't be fixed, but to get into public policy.

Remember how little media coverage he got to get the message out about what a government of, by and for the people should be doing in working for, rather than against, the public interest?

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Big Al He knew how the DC system works. What caught him by surprise was the way the American people work.

It put him in a feud with a political machine he had no intention of bringing a real fight to.

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14 users have voted.

Voting for the party currently agitating for war with Russia seems adverse to the notion of promoting good government.
--on the cusp

lotlizard's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal  
and then that was followed by Trump running, never actually expecting to win the general?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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8 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@lotlizard Yes. In my opinion, yes.

Think about it. 3% of the people know you, you're a "socialist" in the United States, you have no big money support and almost no political support from the insiders. You're up against Hillary Clinton who has billions of dollars and the most powerful people in Washington behind her.

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9 users have voted.

Voting for the party currently agitating for war with Russia seems adverse to the notion of promoting good government.
--on the cusp

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

And that's why he did a fast tour prior to announcing his run. He wanted to be sure that he had a chance - and he did win, even if everyone was cheated out of it.

Now, people at least have a better idea of which two corporate parties to roundly reject... and many are more aware of the smothering wool that's been pulled over their eyes, their nose, continuing downward - and which is about to shut off their air supply.

And the Muse concert album playing just started JFK... we, as people, really don't respond well to warnings, do we?

Edited to correct the tense of a changed sentence and remove a stray extra 'is'. And again, because I keep changing part of a sentence, lol. And am still breathing chemicals from home renovations which make me sick, tired and brain-scrambled and are going on for freaking ever...

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@lotlizard As for Trump, he was obviously designed as a foil to make Hillary look acceptable. The Pied Piper strategy shows that that's exactly how the DNC viewed him and why they wanted to 'elevate' him; all I'm saying is that Trump was in on the joke. What he'd get in return is more notoriety which would make him more money in book, TV, and movie deals.

Then round about September, he realized he could actually beat her...

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12 users have voted.

Voting for the party currently agitating for war with Russia seems adverse to the notion of promoting good government.
--on the cusp

Wink's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
Christmas 2015 (or T-day, maybe) that Bernie figured out he actually Could beat Her. Much before then I think you're right, Bernie was just in it to see if he could shake things up. But, surely by Christmas he had the sense that he could win.

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6 users have voted.

On the radio at netrootsradio.com On Twitter @winkradio. All about building progressive media. (-1.9 / -1.9)

snoopydawg's picture

@Alligator Ed
are complicit in taking people's money when they knew that the primary was rigged. From the start of the primary, Bernie knew that there were problems with people being kicked off the voting rolls and had their party affiliation changed. There were so many complaints by those people and I don't remember Bernie saying anything about that. Nor did he say anything about the Nevada caucus where the lady who was responsible for it started 30 minutes before it was supposed to start and most of his people were still signing in.
Then there's Bill going to 4 voting places in Massachusetts and all the other issues regarding people being able to vote.
Even after her emails were released and they showed how they rigged the election, he was asked if she won it fair and square and he said yes.

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20 users have voted.

A noun, a verb and Putin.

Alligator Ed's picture

@snoopydawg You got me surrounded. Two points here:

1. the suspicious and very real cut on Bernie's right cheek may have signaled some last minute recalcitrance to go along with the plan during the DNC presidential convention

2. Even if Bernie did have prior knowledge of and did not actively resist the corrupted nature of the primary, his campaign contributors were unaware of the fact. This would still allow the ongoing DNC fraud suit to continue. I would like to see what happens if the DNC lawyers say Bernie was aware of the fix before he even started campaigning.

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18 users have voted.

@Alligator Ed

if bernie had been roughed up by professionals, they would have left no visible marks.
if it wasn't an accident, someone lost his temper.

if I had to place a longshot bet, I'd go with Jane. Is she a drinker?

Has Bernie ever been asked directly about the cut?
It is a legitimate question, imo.

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4 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@irishking Unless the professionals wanted people to know. The way to intimidate people is to make it so that they know something brutal has been done, but either cannot prove it or have no way to bring accountability down on the perpetrators.

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15 users have voted.

Voting for the party currently agitating for war with Russia seems adverse to the notion of promoting good government.
--on the cusp

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

so why would he get out of line?

can't believe he would get crazy & need a reminder.

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3 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@irishking And if somebody did lose their temper, I'd bet on Hillary, not Jane.

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15 users have voted.

Voting for the party currently agitating for war with Russia seems adverse to the notion of promoting good government.
--on the cusp

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

I just see Bernie as in sync with HRC all along, so what fight?

But maybe Jane wanted to ride it a little longer and there was a spat.

Has anyone ever asked Sanders straight out?

Enquiring minds want to know.

And If he was roughed up and sold us out, what a gutless piece of trash our hero turned out to be.

Old people have to be ready to give it up. I shake my head.
We needed a mensch and got bernie. gee whiz.

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5 users have voted.
mimi's picture

@irishking
Bad
may I ask if you are drinker ?

no, not really, no?

Well, I thought so.

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4 users have voted.

@mimi

there is strong link between alcohol and violence.
maybe someone got drunk and got mad. domestic spat scenario.

if you don't know what I mean, you are lucky.
thx.

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3 users have voted.
mimi's picture

@irishking
I really thought to get Jane Sanders mentioned in that context was a hitting beneath the belt.
Sorry, for saying so. It's not important, but that was my first reaction.

I can erase my comment in a little bit.

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7 users have voted.

@mimi

I am not a big Jane Sanders fan. I can list my reasons but not really important now.

I have wondered if some of her past dealings might be behind Sanders' missing tax returns, and perhaps provided leverage on Sanders.

But lately I think Bernie was so far in the tank that the idea he had to be brought into line is a stretch.

So I thought other than a simple accident, a domestic tiff is possible cause. and alcohol is very often a factor. So to question Jane's temper & use of alcohol is reasonable here, I think.

You may disagree. no need to take down your reply. thx.

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3 users have voted.
Lily O Lady's picture

@irishking

waving an I'm With Her sign a bit too close possibly hoping to block Bernie's visage from view. I even thought that at the time.

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7 users have voted.

"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

SnappleBC's picture

@mimi

This whole little excursion into speculative fiction is somewhat ghoulish. I'm waiting for someone to connect the dots and explain how Jane killed Kennedy.

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7 users have voted.

Just to get this out of the way, Yes, I'm a plant from DKOS paid for by the DNC

Eagles92's picture

@irishking "Is [Jane] a drinker?"

I live in Burlington. A good friend of mine lives across the street from Bernie and Jane; her daughter and their granddaughter are best friends. These are REAL people, living real lives, far outside the Hamptons' bubble. I can assure everyone here that they are decent, kindhearted, "regular" people. This kind of allegation is mean-spirited and without merit.

I'm still trying to work out what theory makes the most sense to me re: Bernie and his participation in the primary (I most closely align with CSTMS's, but admit to not being sure). Regardless, can we lay off the baseless allegations about his private life?

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15 users have voted.

@Eagles92

on her face, people will wonder if her husband hit her.
no one made an allegation. I asked a question.

perhaps I should have been more careful-
"Have there been any reports of violence, temper, drunkenness, associated with Jane?

I described Jane as a "longshot", but to ask if a mark on the right cheek might have come from a ring on the wife's left fist is just reasonable.
Personally I don't care if she hit him, HRC hit him, he hit himself, or didn't get hit at all.

As to Jane . Please have your friend ask Jane if she ever found those tax returns she promised to release. And wish her good luck with the bank fraud case.

Now that's mean-spirited. thx.

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1 user has voted.
Wink's picture

@irishking
out of it for not caring one way or the other.
As for Bernie and what did he know and when did he know it...
I suspect he first knew the Primary was rigged when he lost Iowa.
Or at least had a suspicion something smelled fishy.
He wins Iowa he wins the Primary. If Bernie wins that Iowa caucus he wins the Primary, is our next president. That's how close the Primary was, and DWS and her DNC knew it. Hillary knew it, too - which is why she called the election for Herself before all the votes were counted. Was one of her few good moves.
Thing is, what was he going to do about it without looking like a whiner, sore loser?
Exactly. Nothing.
I believe he ran all the way to Cali, when it was obvious the race was long over, was becuz he wanted to rub it in Hillary's face with a big F.U., I will not concede, bitch.

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6 users have voted.

On the radio at netrootsradio.com On Twitter @winkradio. All about building progressive media. (-1.9 / -1.9)

@Wink

it began with this remark by Alligator Ed.

1. the suspicious and very real cut on Bernie's right cheek may have signaled some last minute recalcitrance to go along with the plan during the DNC presidential convention

to which I replied-

about that cut

@Alligator Ed

if bernie had been roughed up by professionals, they would have left no visible marks.
if it wasn't an accident, someone lost his temper.

if I had to place a longshot bet, I'd go with Jane. Is she a drinker?

Has Bernie ever been asked directly about the cut?
It is a legitimate question, imo.

Everything else I have said has been in direct answer to others, just like this.
I will respond if some one takes the the time to reply,

So my answer to you is that I did not make a BFD of it.
As to the speculation- Bernie could clear that up easily. Has he never been asked? It is speculative because Bernie has never said what happened.

I am not interested in this issue, but have reponded to reasonable comments.
I have had enough of the Sanders act.

If you want to know my beef with Jane, you could start with her "Ph.D." and her shennanigans as a college president and go on to her handling of the tax returns. I watched her lie on tv about those taxes- the whole crew lied. Maybe she got mad at Bernie & gave him a swat, I don't care.

If I saw him I would be tempted to knock him out myself.
ha!

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1 user has voted.

@Wink

I believe he ran all the way to Cali, when it was obvious the race was long over, was becuz he wanted to rub it in Hillary's face with a big F.U., I will not concede, bitch

.

also a lot of money was coming in to the campaign.
you might want to check out who was getting that money. IIRC some family friends of the Sanders were getting a lot of the business. remember that Sanders tried to keep Jane & Weaver in charge of the Revolution venture & staff revolted.

again I view Sanders as part of the problem now. I wish he would stop it now.

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2 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@snoopydawg In my opinion, Henry Wallace has come closest to the truth.

I don't think Bernie believed he had a chance in hell of actually challenging Hillary for the nomination.

Nobody knew who the fuck he was--only 3% of the population. He had no big money backers. He had next to no party support. He was a "socialist"--not a real one, only a social democrat, but America doesn't know the difference between a social democrat and a Leninist, so that doesn't matter. He's not exactly the most photogenic or charismatic politician this country has. He's not from a big state.

As I've said elsewhere, it was absolutely ridiculous to think that a guy like that could come anywhere near beating a machine candidate like Hillary Clinton, who had not only her own connections and their moolah backing her up, but also all the Bushes'. The Clinton/Bush machine, backed by bankers, oil barons, weaponsmakers, the CIA...against the guy I described above? It's like saying I could beat Triple H in a cage match.

Want to talk about "an improbable journey?" It wasn't Barack Obama's, it was Bernie's. And it was a journey I don't think he had any intention of being on. I bet nobody was more shocked than he was when that one speech, tweaked here and there according to location or circumstance, caused the kind of response it did, and started, by the end of March beginning of April, to make it look like he might actually beat her. That's when, if you remember, her aides started coming out in the press saying "That wasn't the deal!" in injured tones. They were upset because the only reason they let him run in the first place (and let's note the creepiness of having to get permission to run for public office) was that they were certain he could present no real threat to her.

Then suddenly there were people waiting in line for 4 or 5 hours to hear a speech they'd all already heard before on the internet--and fancy camera angles were necessary in order to make it look like Hillary had filled a bingo hall.

They didn't like that.

But frankly, I'm not sure Bernie entirely liked it either. It put him into a very serious feud with a political machine that is vicious and extremely powerful, when all he was actually trying to do, IMO, was keep certain ideas alive. The fight he was trying to bring--and this was actually smart of him--was pushback against the colonization of the human imagination. Without Bernie's campaign, we would have no way of even talking about who we are or what we want, because in a world defined by Hillary vs Trump or Macron vs LePen there is no room for who and what we are. He didn't want an entire chunk of the political spectrum to disappear altogether. I don't believe for a second that he thought he could actually challenge her for the nomination.

I understand why he thought that, but he nevertheless should have planned for the possibility, given how high the stakes were. I'm often surprised by how careless people high up in the hierarchy are, not making contingency plans even for improbable things. I sure as hell would have made contingency plans for every probability I could imagine if I were going into even an exhibition match against the Clinton/Bush machine. My anger at Bernie lies in the fact that he did not make a plan for this contingency.

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21 users have voted.

Voting for the party currently agitating for war with Russia seems adverse to the notion of promoting good government.
--on the cusp

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal For years, on the Thom Hartmann show, Bernie said he would only run if there was no one else. And there wasn't! Unfortunately, there still isn't.

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14 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness Well, it's mainly Henry Wallace's analysis, but thanks! Smile

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11 users have voted.

Voting for the party currently agitating for war with Russia seems adverse to the notion of promoting good government.
--on the cusp

detroitmechworks's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal plan of jousting at the DNC windmill again.

We've seen exactly how it works out, and so has he. However, it's kinda his groove of being the permanent "loyal opposition" and he's comfortable with it. It's the way Bernie gets things done. When the rubber meets the road, Bernie's a true believer in the system and the way it works, because it almost always works for him. (This recent stuff is new, but he's retreating into the comfortable and familiar now.)

Much as I'd like to think he's the Philip II to the needed Alexander...
He's more of a Don Quixote. Trying to stick with the system of the past that has become hopelessly corrupted. A heroic, tragic figure, who honestly believes himself to be the paragon of goodness.

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12 users have voted.

I don't Blame Christians. I Blame Stupid. Which Sadly, is a much more popular religion these days.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@detroitmechworks I hope this is true...I would have hoped that they would reject both Hillary's "resistance" and Bernie's "revolution," but since the anti-Trump marches in December, I've been less than sure of that.

Can you give me specifics as to why you think the people are refusing to be Bernie's Rocinante?

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8 users have voted.

Voting for the party currently agitating for war with Russia seems adverse to the notion of promoting good government.
--on the cusp

detroitmechworks's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal Just the vibe on my social media. Most of what I see from those I associate with (And I have many right leaning acquaintances as well as liberal due to shared hobbies)is that enthusiasm for Bernie has dropped considerably. Jill Stein as well has taken a HUGE hit after her stealth shilling for her Heinousness.

Lots of people talking about local issues, sustainability, mass transit, unions, etc. All across the political spectrum, once you filter out the bullshit promoted crap by the MSM. (And as a Gen Xer I got good at understanding traditional media spin. Social media, still getting a handle on.)

Essentially, we're seeing that the traditional ways of getting things done aren't working, so talking about more guerilla style politics. (I freely admit to trying to popularize that term myself. After all, the people are the sea in which the guerilla swims.... Smile )

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11 users have voted.

I don't Blame Christians. I Blame Stupid. Which Sadly, is a much more popular religion these days.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@detroitmechworks That is exactly where I want to go. That's good news...maybe there's a point in making an effort!

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8 users have voted.

Voting for the party currently agitating for war with Russia seems adverse to the notion of promoting good government.
--on the cusp

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@detroitmechworks It's childish, but I can't help but see King Kong swimming in the Pacific...the sea in which the gorilla swims, LOL

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9 users have voted.

Voting for the party currently agitating for war with Russia seems adverse to the notion of promoting good government.
--on the cusp

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@detroitmechworks Which is odd because I've always hated the King Kong story. It's either racist AND sexist, or else depressing as hell, depending on who you think the bad guy is.

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8 users have voted.

Voting for the party currently agitating for war with Russia seems adverse to the notion of promoting good government.
--on the cusp

Eagles92's picture

@detroitmechworks It's interesting: I've seen the opposite on social media, among -- of all people -- those who vocally vilified him, and those of us who supported him, during the primaries.

Which actually proves a larger point.

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4 users have voted.
detroitmechworks's picture

@Eagles92 Hillary die-hards LOVE them some Bernie now.

Can't stop talking about how much we're disrespecting him by not listening to him and voting for her heinousness.

Of course, most of those folks are wealthy... or at least famous and connected to the media. So you know, Big block of salt.

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10 users have voted.

I don't Blame Christians. I Blame Stupid. Which Sadly, is a much more popular religion these days.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Eagles92 That he's now acceptable to Democratic voters who don't want to abandon the party and are comforted by Bernie's continued acceptance of it?

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4 users have voted.

Voting for the party currently agitating for war with Russia seems adverse to the notion of promoting good government.
--on the cusp

Wink's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

is get back in it.

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1 user has voted.

On the radio at netrootsradio.com On Twitter @winkradio. All about building progressive media. (-1.9 / -1.9)

Wink's picture

@detroitmechworks
for Bernie is Bernie's fault. Had he grabed the reigns in January - or February even - he would still be flying high, the sky for Democrats still the limit.
Instead...
I believe that enthusiams would pick up some if Bernie went back to being Bernie circa 2016. But, we'll never know. For whatever reason - some offer he couldn't refuse? - Bernie has chosen to walk away.

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4 users have voted.

On the radio at netrootsradio.com On Twitter @winkradio. All about building progressive media. (-1.9 / -1.9)

Wink's picture

@detroitmechworks
move that damned overton window Leftward. He ain't any more complicated than that.

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4 users have voted.

On the radio at netrootsradio.com On Twitter @winkradio. All about building progressive media. (-1.9 / -1.9)

Wink's picture

@Wink
called all those No votes Yes votes and, just like that, history was changed. Had she done the right thing - Ha! - Bernie likely is president, that overton window moved a ton. Instead, he constantly gets shit on for trivial bullshit.

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5 users have voted.

On the radio at netrootsradio.com On Twitter @winkradio. All about building progressive media. (-1.9 / -1.9)

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Wink But I think that's of great consequence.

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2 users have voted.

Voting for the party currently agitating for war with Russia seems adverse to the notion of promoting good government.
--on the cusp

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal careless is the right word for a lot of politicians actions, or many people in general for that matter. Imo it is the lack of a logical thinking process on any given subject or skill other than the one they are involved in and many are not even good at that. I guess my point is that when you have the ability to see the big picture on many different things (and from reading your posts you and many others here at C99 have this ability ) we assume others do to but Imo from life experience it simply isn't so.

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9 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@pro left Oh. Oh, shit.
They are supposed to be smarter than me.

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8 users have voted.

Voting for the party currently agitating for war with Russia seems adverse to the notion of promoting good government.
--on the cusp

Wink's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
showing up at his events. That just might give an idea that, yes, I have a shot at this. Unknown or not.

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5 users have voted.

On the radio at netrootsradio.com On Twitter @winkradio. All about building progressive media. (-1.9 / -1.9)

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Wink There weren't thousands at the beginning. It took time.

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2 users have voted.

Voting for the party currently agitating for war with Russia seems adverse to the notion of promoting good government.
--on the cusp

gulfgal98's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal I do believe that Bernie first ran to get his ideas out there. I did not see exactly that way at the time, but in retrospect, I believe you pegged this right.

...when all he was actually trying to do, IMO, was keep certain ideas alive. The fight he was trying to bring--and this was actually smart of him--was pushback against the colonization of the human imagination.

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2 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West "...isn't the problem here that the government takes on, arbitrarily and without justification, an adversarial attitude towards its citizenry?" ~CantStopthe Signal

lotlizard's picture

@Big Al

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9 users have voted.
SparkyGump's picture

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5 users have voted.

You don't have to like the truth for it to be true

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Big Al Discrediting them (further), and getting the money back, would be worthwhile.
I don't believe any longterm redemption of the Dems is imagined as possible by the people who are bringing the suit, though of course, I could be wrong about that.

If someone lies from you and steals from you, it's understandable that you might want to object in a court of law, even in the crappy excuse for a society we've got.

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15 users have voted.

Voting for the party currently agitating for war with Russia seems adverse to the notion of promoting good government.
--on the cusp

If people know that the system is rigged they might try to beat the system, but they would certainly fail - or they might accept the rigging and try to benefit from the rigging by supporting - bribing - the predetermined winner. This is what the DNC is attempting to institutionalize, a third world style state, where the only effective strategy is to bribe those in power, or those who plan to be in power.

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28 users have voted.

A PROUD Hillary hater since 1993

gulfgal98's picture

@doh1304

This is what the DNC is attempting to institutionalize, a third world style state, where the only effective strategy is to bribe those in power, or those who plan to be in power.

Over that last two decades, we have been watching the normalization of what was once unthinkable in the minds of most citizens. This is just one part of that normalization process. It is also a symptom of an empire in steep decline.

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25 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West "...isn't the problem here that the government takes on, arbitrarily and without justification, an adversarial attitude towards its citizenry?" ~CantStopthe Signal

@gulfgal98

Conditioning or, as Hillary terms it, incrementalism. The frog stays put and boils.

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0 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@doh1304 Well said.

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11 users have voted.

Voting for the party currently agitating for war with Russia seems adverse to the notion of promoting good government.
--on the cusp

Steven D's picture

@doh1304 institutionalized it.

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6 users have voted.

"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott

@doh1304 taking money from Lobbyists, BAD; taking money from Private Individuals, GOOD. And of course, private individuals never have nefarious means, only those Corps do. Individuals are "liberals" who are inherently good and ONLY want the best for all of us. Great spin attempt by the plutocrats once again.

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6 users have voted.
ZimInSeattle's picture

member and just maybe I'll get some of my money back. It's fraud, pure and simple.

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18 users have voted.

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK | Bernie would have WON!

SparkyGump's picture

I remember reading in the 70's how the Soviet Politburo had a higher turnover rate that the US Congress. This is business as usual for these fascist pigs. Hopefully, this case can start crumbling that Neocon wall.

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8 users have voted.

You don't have to like the truth for it to be true