Where Hillary isn't really that different from Donald

OK, sure. There is certainly huge differences in style between Clinton and Trump.
Trump is crude and boorish. Hillary is traditional and measured.
On some issues, like Obamacare and climate change, they are polar opposites.
But how different are their other policies?

“The terrible things that we expect from Donald Trump, we’ve actually already seen from Hillary Clinton.”
- Jill Stein

For instance, remember that wall that Trump wants to build on the border with Mexico? Remember how Democrats laughed at the idea?
Well, not everyone was against the idea.

The O’Malley campaign’s attack follows Clinton’s remarks Monday night touting her work funding border fences during her Senate tenure.
“I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in,” she said during a town hall. "And I do think you have to control your borders.

So their only real difference here is the size of the wall.
How about deportations? Trump wants to deport all the illegals. Hillary's plan is slightly different.

During Wednesday's Democratic debate, Hillary Clinton said her deportation policies would differ from President Obama's; immigrant advocates have dismissed him as "deporter-in-chief" for forcibly removing more immigrants than any other president.
Clinton said that unlike Obama, she would focus on deporting "violent criminals, terrorists" and others who want to do harm.
In fact, that is Obama's policy almost verbatim.

Hillary's plan would differ from the biggest deporter in history by only deporting adults.
Once again, it's a difference, but it's not a mile wide.

And then there are the Muslims. Trump says scary things about what he's gonna do to the Muslims, while Hillary has positioned herself as their defender.
But when push comes to shove...

Back in 2000, during a heated US Senate race in New York, Clinton came under attack for accepting political contributions from Muslim groups whose members were targets of a smear campaign generated by one of the Islamophobia industry’s most discredited operatives.
Without hesitation, Clinton condemned her Muslim supporters, returned their donations and refused to meet with Arab and Muslim Americans for the remainder of her campaign, all in the spirit of “wooing Jewish voters,” as The New York Times put it.

“Trump says very scary things — deporting immigrants, massive militarism and ignoring the climate. Well, Hillary, unfortunately, has a track record for doing all of those things.”
- Jill Stein

When it comes to corporate America, the differences are sometimes impossible to see.

As we look for signs of which presidential candidate major corporations will see as best serving their interests, the head of the largest pharmaceutical company in the world is saying he can’t really tell.
Ian Read, the chief executive of Pfizer, said that he cannot “at this moment distinguish between the policies that Donald Trump may support or those that Hillary Clinton may support.”

It really shouldn't be a surprise that the corporate policies for a billionaire real estate developer should closely resemble the corporate policies for a former Walmart Board of Directors member.
Like Trump, Clinton strongly supports fracking.

The other day Hillary attacked Trump on foreign policy.

She reminded Americans of the stakes of the election, and sketched out a dystopian vision of what might befall America if Trump were elected president: “Letting ISIS run wild, launching a nuclear attack, starting a ground war, these are all distinct possibilities with Donald Trump in charge.”

This is a bizarre tactic for Hillary, because outside of a nuclear war, she's already done all of these things, and is more likely to do them in the future.

Clinton’s extreme belligerence “will likely set her apart from the Republican candidate she meets in the general election,” the Times explains, noting “neither Donald J. Trump nor Senator Ted Cruz of Texas have demonstrated anywhere near the appetite for military engagement abroad that Clinton has.”
In the 2016 presidential campaign, the report concludes, “Hillary Clinton is the last true hawk left in the race.”

If you are worried about being in a war, then you don't put someone in charge that likes to pick fights.
In fact, the tendency to start wars might be the biggest difference between Hillary and Donald.

Trump made some noises about wanting to torture terrorists, but Hillary's history on the issue isn't all that clear.

In October 2006, Clinton spoke about exceptions to a no-torture policy when speaking to the New York Daily News. Clinton mentioned a "ticking time bomb" scenario in which a captured terrorist has knowledge of an imminent terror attack and interrogators want to use torture.
"In the event we were ever confronted with having to interrogate a detainee with knowledge of an imminent threat to millions of Americans, then the decision to depart from standard international practices must be made by the president, and the president must be held accountable," she said.

Trump has endorsed excessive military force, but then so has Hillary.

Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton drew another distinction between herself and Sen. Barack Obama yesterday, refusing to rule out the use of nuclear weapons against Osama bin Laden or other terrorists in Afghanistan and Pakistan

Trump doesn't want a deal with Iran, but then Hillary isn't fond of a deal with Iran either.

Clinton’s right-leaning tendencies were most evident in her discussion of Iran. She reserved particular ire for the country — which was mentioned 14 times in the debate.
In the most egregious moment, when she was asked “which enemy are you most proud of,” Clinton buoyantly replied “the Iranians.”

In fact, Hillary worked hard against a deal with Iran.

Clinton also sabotaged early efforts to work out an agreement in which Iran surrendered much of its low-enriched uranium, including an initiative in 2010 organized at Obama’s request by the leaders of Brazil and Turkey. Clinton sank that deal and escalated tensions with Iran along the lines favored by Israel’s right-wing Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, a Clinton favorite.

And then, of course, there is Libya and Syria

Privately, Clinton’s senior aides viewed the Libyan “regime change” as a chance to establish what they called the “Clinton Doctrine” on using “smart power” with plans for Clinton to rush to the fore and claim credit once Gaddafi was ousted. But that scheme failed when President Obama grabbed the limelight after Gaddafi’s government collapsed.
...
Again, Clinton’s war plans were cloaked in humanitarian language, such as the need to create a “safe zone” inside Syria to save civilians. But her plans would have required a major U.S. invasion of a sovereign country, the destruction of its air force and much of its military, and the creation of conditions for another “regime change.”
In the case of Syria, however, Obama resisted the pressure from Clinton and other hawks inside his own administration. The President did approve some covert assistance to the rebels and allowed Saudi Arabia, Turkey and the Gulf states to do much more, but he did not agree to an outright U.S.-led invasion to Clinton’s disappointment.

If you still don't believe Hillary's war hawk credentials, consider the words of Robert Kagan, a co-founder of the neocon Project for the new American Century:
“I feel comfortable with her on foreign policy. If she pursues a policy which we think she will pursue it’s something that might have been called neocon, but clearly her supporters are not going to call it that; they are going to call it something else.”

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...and get banned?
I give them permission to use this if there is a volunteer.

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elenacarlena's picture

rolling accounts over there, so we can post a lot of things from here over there, only temporarily banned until we create the next account.

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Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.

because its all referenced and true.

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wilderness voice's picture

you can pick and choose from a variety of originating IP address and sign up for all the new accounts you like. Probably need to delete all dKos cookies from browser first, also.

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I like this.

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everyone should have their kicks and post a few. helps if you have a local university with different IP addresses from which to register and post Smile

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did 9 months in California prison, because Neoliberal Democrats and GOP maggots work together to profit off the drug war

ZimInSeattle's picture

back and say I told you so when she loads her cabinet with a bunch of corporate hacks. Also had the thought of all the BernieBots there writing bannable diaries so Kos would be forced to reduce traffic on his site.

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"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK | "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine." - G. B. Shaw Bernie/Tulsi 2020

Sandino's picture

but it'll be mid-july before I can post anything...

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If not, then let us know when it goes up so we can uprate it.

I imagine the rec-ers would be banned too.

Good piece gjohnsit!

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wilderness voice's picture

Hillary's opponent, Rudy Giuliani, had to drop out because his personal life had become a soap opera. He was replaced mid-campaign by a little-known congressman from Long Island. Nonetheless, Hillary ran 5 points behind Al Gore in the state of New York in that election.

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riverlover's picture

Isn't her life a soap opera cliff-hanger now?

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

Hillary might acknowledge the science, but she's not going to do anything to reverse climate change. She's refused to support a carbon tax and she's pro-fracking. I don't know what's worse, the person that recognizes the problem and does nothing or the person that pretends that it doesn't exist.

Add to that the fact that Trump has actually espoused positions to the left of Hillary on everything from healthcare (universal) to trade (anti-TPP/FTAs) to foreign policy (no nation building), and transgender rights, and she ends up looking even worse. Sure, there's at least a 75% chance that Trump is lying or doesn't know what he really believes, but isn't a wild card better than Hillary, who we know does not want single payer, supports TPP, is a hawkish warmonger, and doesn't have the political courage to take a stand on LGBT rights until the fight is already over?

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WindDancer13's picture

we don't really know if the "hoax" rhetoric is just that...rhetoric. Is there anything he has personally done, you know like promote fracking all over the world, that would give a real clue as to his opinion?

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

Sandino's picture

corporations gain sovereignty over national governments and can prevent any regulations that will hamper their profits.

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Hillary is for the TPP, Trump opposes it.

Great choice on our side.

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MonetaryLeviathon's picture

trump is against all the trade agreements and says so repeatedly, hillary is for All the trade agreements no matter what..... big difference. Similarities of Trump compared with Bernie.... they are aligned against these trade agreements though trump is more forceful verbally about it and likely the reason the GOP is trying to shitcan him.... both parties have been routinely fucking the country for 24 years with this shit. A few million people need to take a dump on Leo Strauss and Milton Friedman's graves and anyone who supports these atrocious policies

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Big Al's picture

But it is interesting to hear a potential president of the U.S. talk about having the keys to the nuclear codes, the ability to launch U.S. nukes by a U.S. President. That's a pretty astounding thing. In actuality, the launching of nukes is against all international law, there is no way to justify it although some try to like some try to justify torture. It is impossible to use nukes under current international law. Not to mention ethical considerations.

http://www.crimesofwar.org/a-z-guide/nuclear-weapons/

Also, the deal with Iran is and always has been part of the master plan for eventual regime change in Iran, Clinton certainly knows that, Trump doubtful.

"Knowing that Iran will never exist within Washington, Wall Street, London, and Brussels' "international order" as an obedient client state, a prescription for regime change in Tehran has long been formulated. Best summarized in the 2009 Brookings Institution paper titled, "The Path to Persia: Options for a New American Strategy toward Iran" (.pdf), this regime change formula includes absolutely everything from economic sanctions and US-backed political upheaval, to the use of terrorism and proxy war to undermine and overthrow Iranian sociopolitical stability and eventually the Iranian state itself.

In the lengthy 220 page document, Brookings policymakers acknowledge the necessity to first neutralize Syria before moving against Iran itself. It also prescribes the delisting of US State Department foreign terrorist organizations in order for the US to then arm and back them in a proxy war against Tehran. Among the terrorist organizations mentioned was Mojahedin-e-Khalq (MEK), a terrorist organization guilty of years of violence including the kidnapping and murder of American service members and American civilians. MEK has also continued carrying out terrorist attacks against political and civilian targets in Iran up to present day.

It should be noted that these 2009 "suggestions" eventually manifested themselves as the current, ongoing conflict in Syria and Iraq where US, Saudi, and Turkish-backed terrorists are waging war against Syrian, Iraqi, Iranian, and Russian backed political and military fronts, as well as the eventual delisting of MEK.

It is clear then, that the Brookings paper was more than a collection of mere suggestions. It was an anthology of various operations arrayed against Tehran either ongoing or in the planning stages as of 2009."

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/search/label/iran

It really doesn't matter who is President, the agenda for world hegemony is set, neither can or will change it. Tactics and strategies are the only differences. But Clinton is clearly the more dangerous at this point in time and it can be said that Clinton is one of the preeminent war hawks on the face of the planet. That's who we might have as President.

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WindDancer13's picture

children to "send a message"? I must have missed that reversal, but no matter cuz then I won't notice when she reverses it again.

Disclaimer: I am not a psychologist or psychiatrist (although, I do have a minor in abnormal psychology). Don't they also just about come out equal in this:

"DSM-5 criteria for narcissistic personality disorder include these features:

Having an exaggerated sense of self-importance
Expecting to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
Exaggerating your achievements and talents
Being preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
Believing that you are superior and can only be understood by or associate with equally special people
Requiring constant admiration
Having a sense of entitlement
Expecting special favors and unquestioning compliance with your expectations
Taking advantage of others to get what you want
Having an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
Being envious of others and believing others envy you
Behaving in an arrogant or haughty manner"

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

which is mostly a cheering squad for Madame Warhawk now, and all who endorse her. They need to see a bit of reality about their chosen one, IMO.

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I rarely visit either anymore.

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detroitmechworks's picture

On the same side, trying to get the American public to just confess that corporate control is what we wanted all along.

Only Good Cop seems to like punching the suspect lefties more.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

WindDancer13's picture

I forget.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

seefleur's picture

veterans with his fund raising (yeah, me neither)? Well Hills has "shared" her PAC $$$ with down ticket candidates since 208... unless you read this article from The Intercept - https://theintercept.com/2016/06/10/hillary-clinton-used-leadership-pac-...

What FEC records show is that Hill PAC’s single largest payment went to Clinton’s campaign, which was about $25 million in debt, including $13 million Clinton lent it herself, when Clinton dropped out in June. While Hill PAC couldn’t legally donate more than $5,000 to Clinton’s campaign account, it was allowed to pay for goods or services from the campaign.

Hill PAC paid $822,492 to the Clinton campaign to rent its list of supporters and their contact information. That alone was nearly twice the amount Hill PAC contributed to down-ballot candidates.

The campaign told the Wall Street Journal in 2009 that Hill PAC paid to use the list for the November election. But filings show Hill PAC didn’t actually pay for the list until January 19, 2009.

Two days after Hill PAC’s payment to her cash-strapped campaign, Clinton was confirmed as secretary of state in the Obama administration.

Hill PAC did not contribute to any candidates after that, and dissolved in July.

“The evidence does suggest Hill PAC was used primarily as a slush fund to subsidize Clinton’s presidential campaign, using money raised outside of the limits that apply to the campaign itself, rather than as a fund to support other candidates,” said Brendan Fischer, a campaign finance expert at the Campaign Legal Center, a nonpartisan group that supports campaign finance reform.

Sounds remarkably TRump-ish...

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Think off-center.
George Carlin

WindDancer13's picture

[video:https://youtu.be/UszjUSCjNPY]

From the YouTube comments:

Hillary Clinton has actively HARMED the cause of feminism by utilizing the gender card to protect HERSELF from legitimate criticism and opposition. Being a woman is not supposed to be a get out of jail free card for your own bad behavior.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

RejectingThe3rdWay's picture

Especially HRC (Her Royal Clinton) supporters

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When I was a kid, Republicans used to red scare people, now it's the Democrats. I am getting too damn old for this crap!

LinQness's picture

Almost as much as the right used "socialism" against O. I hate that the legit misogyny will be downplayed in the general as a result. There's just so many times you can call wolf.

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"Politics is not evil; politics is the human race's most magnificent achievement." Senator Tom Fries, 'Podkayne of Mars,' Robert Heinlein

When we say that Hillary and Trump are polar opposites on any issue, are we basing that on more than Presidential primary campaign rhetoric, which tends more toward the left and right, respectively, than even the candidate intends to govern? As a preliminary matter, that she supports Obamacare, which I oppose, is not, in and of itself, a selling point for me. She opposes Medicare for all, which I support. So, the issue for me is health care, not specifically Obamacare, a derivative of Billarycare.

From Trump, we have a record only as a business person and a 2016 primary candidate. We have not seen him anywhere near government, except, by his own account, as a donor who expects a return on his political donations.

On the other hand, Hillary was an influential First Lady of Arkansas for some number of years, an influential First Lady of the U.S. for 8 years, a U.S. Senator for 8 years and Secretary of State, one of the most powerful Cabinet positions, for 4 years and a 2008 and 2016 Presidential primary candidate. As we have seen in two Presidential primaries, especially this one, she is also very influential with the DNC and with Democratic politicians in Washington D.C. and in most or all states.

With all that power and influence going for her, what did Hillary actually accomplish, or even attempt, in terms of health care and global warming? She was a DLC founder and WalMart board member. She was for Billarycare, a dense version of the Heritage Foundation plan that even Democrats of that day under their Party head and her husband, would not touch. As a Senator during the Bush administration, did she write any health care or pro-environment bills or amendments? If so, was she able to get them passed?

Given Hillary's record on honesty, trustworthiness and ability to advocate successfully for legislation, how much should I really care if her 2016 primary rhetoric is the only evidence that she is the opposite of Trump on health care and global warming? Obviously, I am not advocating voting for Trump, but I am also not advocating being more sanguine about a Hillary Presidency. That these seem to be our only two viable choices for POTUS in a population of about 350 million speaks volumes about the damage the Clinton-From partnership has done to the Democratic Party and therefore to the nation.

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The only one I've noticed is that T-Rump is the greatest and everybody else receives contempt...plus unilateral punishment if T-Rump specially doesn't like them.

If Clinton's neoliberalism is a cancer -- fair simile, I think -- then T-Rumpism is rabies. They may both kill us, but they are not alike.

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Euterpe2

lunachickie's picture

What kind of punishment do we think might happen from T-rump, that could be truly "unilateral" once he's President?

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many Congress members, or more than a handful of career civil servants to say, "Sorry, Mr. President, you/we can't do that," I would suggest they talk to some long-serving government employees and/or read some German history. Even the judiciary is not immune.

He can order people fired, disciplined or demoted, and that possibility will get most to obey orders, even illegal ones. He can investigate, tax-audit, freeze assets, defund, and even expropriate. He can stir up hate-crimes by demonizing from the bully pulpit. He can instigate administrative step-ups or slow-downs. He can use prosecutorial discretion to crack down on "enemies" while "friends" go scot-free. He can, yes, round up, detain, deport, rendition, deprive of citizenship. He can nullify laws by refusing to act. He can nullify appropriations by refusing to spend the money. He can order drone strikes, assassinations, invasions. Who you gonna call?

Yes, not alone: he'll need a cadre of political appointees to deliver the orders. And career officials to rationalize why they "have to" obey. Think that won't happen?

Folks get ahead in government, even the military, by being yes-how-high men and women for the most part. Therefore the woods is full of them. Exceptions like Bernie are precious beyond measure.

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Euterpe2