It's a lot like the bush gore debate, where gore sighed. The pundits thought he won because of command of details. But the people just liked bush more, and were put off by gore.
Edited to correct autocorrect, which has a mind of its own.
In debates in particular, it doesn't matter if she lies or defends her crap policies or what. As long as she spews some numbers like the very small bore personality she is, she gets praised to the skies.
The Presidency is not a test that you can study for. Willingness and ability to memorize doesn't cut it. Neither does a crappy job as SOS and as Senator and as First Lady of the US and as First Lady of Arkansas and as a lawyer and as a director of WalMart. It means only that you were not qualified for any position you ever held. If elected, she'll be a Peter Principle President, much as she's been a Peter Principle position holder at every other level of her career.
She can't even be all that good at studying for tests. She didn't graduate with academic honors and she failed the D.C. bar exam. Maybe those tests required thinking, and not only memorizing. Maybe, you had to come up with the right policy and not only a bunch of statistics.
Taking two years to comply with a subpoena when you are First Lady of the US, then claiming you found the papers in the White House dining room was not the right answer. Voting for the Iraq War was not the right answer. Running a "racially tinged" campaign against Obama was not the right answer. Laughing maniacally at having Gaddafi killed and the prospect of bombing Iran is not the right answer. Taking two years to comply with and FOIA request is not the right answer. Having your emails deleted before you comply is not the right answer. Self dealing between yourself as Secretary of State and yourself as a member of the Clinton family, which runs the Clinton Foundation interested in the family's foundation is not the right answer.
Is Trump full of wrong answers, too? Sure, but let's not play like he is and she isn't. And she's been responsible for a hell of a lot more actual havoc than he has.
Same for landing a partnership with a corporate law firm as her first corporate law job: The Rose firm did a lot of legal work for the State of Arkansas while Bubba was Governor.
From what I remember is that she helped create SCHIP along with Ted Kennedy and others.
But then a lot of women and children were hurt when she helped Bill pass welfare reform, the crime bill, and voted for the bankruptcy bill.
But then a lot of women and children were killed in during the Iraq, Libyan and Syrian wars.
And there's a reason why so many women and children are fleeing from those countries and Honduras.
And then there's the time that she spent on the board of Walmart. I'm sure that she was an outspoken critic of the way they paid and treated their employees.
But she keeps telling us that the things that she did wrong were just mistakes.
up
0 users have voted.
—
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
and oddly, FB is in micro-type. Both changes occurred after Microsoft "updated" my Win10 OS, and I am getting warnings to do incomprehensible things with my other devices, to be able to run apps or something.
up
0 users have voted.
—
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
You can just ignore the popups regarding apps. I did on the computer without a touch screen. I was wondering how to change the size of the fonts in my posts here. Like sometimes I want to emphasis a word by doing that. I thought maybe you knew.
Or maybe my iPhone is just being weird. On it, my c99 logo disappeared, and I had a unicorn logo instead.
up
0 users have voted.
—
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
If there are two of us there will be more. Familiarity may make it off-pitting, if newbies have this problem, I am afraid they think we all have low vision. And we want a younger addition market.
up
0 users have voted.
—
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Working on it, along with three crises today, all at this point at points I just wait. And hope bp drops. But I got a flu shot today!!
up
0 users have voted.
—
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
...Or maybe my iPhone is just being weird. On it, my c99 logo disappeared, and I had a unicorn logo instead.
Probably a message to us Berniebros from Microsoft/Google that King Hagar is planning to kill off The Last Unicorn with monstrous Red Bull and we're all doomed...
Edited to add what my semi-facetious response was intended for, since it's way the heck upthread.
up
0 users have voted.
—
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
That's another example of her jumping in front of a parade. It was Ted Kennedy's policy. She had no hand in drafting it. She wasn't allowed to help lobby for it on the Hill, because after the HillaryCare fiasco, they all hated her.
Her claim to ownership of this policy is that she said she talked Bill into supporting it, and Kennedy graciously said that her "pillowtalk" level lobbying was important. So the best case here is that her husband, the Democratic President, who had put her in charge of health care reform that she utterly failed at, agreed to sign a bill created by the Democratic Lion of the Senate that would conveniently help Hillary look better by delivering some modest improvement in health care policy. Left unsaid is why it would have taken any kind of skill or effort to get said Democratic President to sign a bill passed by the Democratic Lion of the Senate that also helped his legacy and his ambitious wife's reputation and resume.
Also left unsaid: if talking your husband into doing something demonstrates political competence, shouldn't Nancy Reagan have gotten to do the third Reagan term?
Her wiki goes into exquisite detail about her college and law school years and how her fellow students at Wellesley chose her to be their first student speaker. However, there is no mention of being graduate with academic honors from either college or law school. Contrast that with the detailed description of her high school distinctions.
She attended Maine East High School, where she participated in student council, the school newspaper, and was selected for the National Honor Society.[2][15] She won election as class vice president for her junior year, but then lost an election for class president for her senior year against two boys, one of whom told her, "you are really stupid if you think a girl can be elected president."[16] For her senior year, she and other students were transferred to the then new Maine South High School, where she was a National Merit Finalist and was voted "most likely to succeed". She graduated in the top five percent of her class of 1965.
Voted most likely to succeed in high school? Wow.
And, for her first act after law school, she failed the D.C. bar exam. Now, I am not saying that means she is dumb. I am saying there is no evidence of academic achievement after high school, other than, of course, getting into Wellesley and Yale.
watching two criminal minds (if not actual criminals) debate each other for the Presidency of the United States. I decided that it was all coming down to scale and which metric of criminality would appeal most (least? hard to fathom on such a bizarre metric) to American voters
For instance:
Trump screwed contractors on his buildings but
Clinton was on the Board for Walmart, famous for underpaying it's employees and making Americans pick up the tab by supplementing their peon wages with Medicaid and food stamps
So which is worse? Screwing a limited number of contractors or screwing millions of employees for America's largest employer? You be the judge.
Trump hid his taxes but
Clinton hid an entire State Department
So which is worse? I always say people who hide things have things to hide. You be the judge
Trump made millions from his fake for-profit university Trump University and is being investigated for fraud but
Clinton earned many more millions by hubby fronting for for-profit Laureate University, which is refiling and correcting its SEC filings due to " five material weaknesses in our internal controls over financial reporting" There's also a request by 64 House Republicans (natch) for FBI, IRS, and FTC investigations into the overlap between the Clintons and Laureate. And Clinton as well as Trump, may have misused the term "university" in their Clinton Global Initiative University, just like Trump.
So which is worse? Trumps's profiteering in education or Clinton's profiteering from education? You be the judge
Trump shows an uncomfortable comfort with the concept of blowing people up but Hillary has actually done it and laughed afterwards
Which is worse? You be the judge.
I could go on, but you get the idea. The two candidates have many weird correlations and overlaps. In the end, I personally find them both completely unacceptable and cannot understand how we came to this pass.
up
0 users have voted.
—
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
something on which I had not focused until today. New York has a "favorite son" and a "favorite daughter" running for President in 2016. How long has it been since the nominee of the Republican Party and the nominee of the Democratic Party have been from the same state?
She settled on NY in 2000 because there was an open Senate seat and that is where Wall Street is...
up
0 users have voted.
—
" In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy "
New York has a "favorite son" and a "favorite daughter" running for President in 2016. How long has it been since the nominee of the Republican Party and the nominee of the Democratic Party have been from the same state?
They're both psychopaths, Trump simply hasn't yet had the opportunities of scale Hillary has.
Vote non-corporate, non-fascist, non-psychopath, vote Green - and refuse to let blatant electoral cheating stand or accept the results yet again 'as a done deal'! The last chance is here.
up
0 users have voted.
—
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Hands down. Not the reasonable and factual aspect of it, but the appearance of it. And as we all should know by now, the TV is mostly about appearance. It's about how you look, and about how you act -... it's not about what you say.
Trump killed her. Face to face on a split-screen... no contest. Trump was obviously the Dominant Male, and Hillary failed to overcome this natural advantage. She relies on facts and figures, a rational analysis, while he relies on both emotion and common sense.
In many ways Hillary is right and Trump is wrong, but the bottom line is... which candidate will be the more persuasive to the voting public. A hundred miliion people or so, are said to have tuned in to it.. Judging solely from this televized debate, I'd put trump as the clear winner.
disagree, but then again they believe in the meritocracy that HRC represents.
Meanwhile, at the very start I found it interesting in their choice of apparel. HRC was in Republican red while Trump sported a Democrat blue tie. Not sure of how positioning is decided but there is some symbolism that can be found in the fact that Trump faced the audience from the left and HRC from the right. Optics.
up
0 users have voted.
—
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
These things are important. Trump's blue tie and Hillary's red dress as well. Overall, Trump's conservative attire worked better than Hillary's pseudo-passionate wardrobe.
But I've been told that red is a sign of anger.
At least she did wear that dress that she wore on the plane during her first appearance after she rested from pneumonia.
Someone's comment was it looked like she stole the drapes from a Ramada Inn and made a dress out of them.
up
0 users have voted.
—
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
She looked like Nancy risen from the grave and it did NOT present a good picture. All I could think about, besides an internal argument about whether they'd injected her with Botox or formaldehyde, was how much she had to be intentionally trying to look like Nancy Reagan, between the red clothing and rigidly coiffed hair.
But at least she finally wore politically appropriate colors.
Hillary departed from her usual staid appearance, with the red dress and the frozen hair. But IMO that look was needed to disguise her liberal use of mascara and eye liner. Her makeup artist gave her 'cat eyes' which allowed her to squint more and blink more, things she had to do to disguise her strabismus. It was definitely there if you looked for it. Another thing she did was look to the left a lot, and since the strabismus affects her right eye it let her keep the wrong eye centered for the camera, she essentially transposed the problem to the other eye.
I think Drumpf exceeded expectations, Hillary was fine. No change in strong support, but I think Drumpf won because he didn't bite the head off a live bat or call Hillary names.
up
0 users have voted.
—
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
Trump totally won the debate. Hands down. Not the reasonable and factual aspect of it, but the appearance of it. And as we all should know by now, the TV is mostly about appearance. It's about how you look, and about how you act -... it's not about what you say.
The opinions you are trying to move with your debate performance at this point are those who can actually be persuaded to vote for either Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump. True Swing Voters. How many people do you know who are like that? They are extremely difficult to find, comprising only about 4%-7% of those who show up to vote. You might never in your lifetime meet any of these people, but they are out there. They are the ones who change their minds every time they see something in the headlines...
The thing about these Swing Voters is that they are mostly clueless about government, about business, about history, about most of the things that T and C talked about tonight. But they do read faces and moods and emotions.
From the brief amount of time I watched the debate, I could see that Trump was coming across in a way that would have reassured some of these Swing Voters, who had been reading a lot of criticism about the guy from MSM and the Clinton News Network. Hillary, on the other hand, was the same old phony presentation of herself, with her attempts to sound knowledgeable on various issues. I couldn't see that she did anything to help herself with the Swing Voters.
Then again, I didn't watch the whole thing, so I can't really make any predictions, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Trump gain on her after this first encounter between them.
"They are the ones who change their minds every time they see something in the headlines...
The thing about these Swing Voters is that they are mostly clueless about government, about business, about history, about most of the things that T and C talked about tonight"
Boy am I happy to see such erudite, competent posters here. It gives me lots of faith to see such competent, intelligent persons truly do exist out there. A** hole
However much you may want to convince yourself otherwise, the vast majority of the electorate does not know much about history, about the workings of politics, about how businesses function, etc.
Haven't you ever noticed how the polls move according to how much negative press a President/candidate gets in the final months before an election? It's only a few percentage points typically, but move they do.
Wishing that 'marginal' voters (those who may or may not vote) were much more informed than they are isn't going to change the reality.
For what it's worth, as an educator, I do not blame any individual or group for their ignorance of various topics; it's not their fault. But it's a reality nevertheless that any sober group of political activists needs to face up to.
How dare you suggest that I feel superior to the uninformed, who are constantly being victimized by the Republicans and the Centrists of the Dem Party. As someone who has advocated for the disadvantaged for decades, I deeply resent your insinuation. and the mindlessness of your attack on someone who is actually on your side.
I didn't watch or listen to debates.
Weak stomach.
Now know what Her Heinious was doing while "preparing" - Botox and facial treatments. Yup. Appearances matter. No doubt about it, she had "work/treatments" done to look as she did. No makeup can account for the change in how she looked.
Also, closer fitting jacket - ask any woman ( or man for that matter) - there was a lotta work done.
Also loved the pic of her standing on her little platform.
Hillary pissed off Trump a couple of times and even got him to basically admit he doesn't pay federal income taxes. He didn't look good trying to interrupt her, and she didn't back off for him. Later in the debate he calmed down (some say he got tired).
up
0 users have voted.
—
"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."
gets processed. The Clintons may owe as much more as Trump or way more than that. Remember one of her 'tells' is also one of projecting.
up
0 users have voted.
—
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Hands down. Not the reasonable and factual aspect of it, but the appearance of it. And as we all should know by now, the TV is mostly about appearance. It's about how you look, and about how you act -... it's not about what you say.
Trump killed her. Face to face on a split-screen... no contest. Trump was obviously the Dominant Male, and Hillary failed to overcome this natural advantage. She relies on dubiious facts and figures, a somewhat rational analysis, while he relies on pure emotion and (fairly obvious) common sense.
In many ways Hillary is right and Trump is wrong - unquestionably. But the bottom line is... which candidate will be the more persuasive to the voting public. A hundred miliion Americans or so, are said to have tuned in to this debate.. judging solely from this televised version, I'd put Trump as the clear winner of it. Yes he is a racist, a xenbophobe ,but so have a large proportion of Americans always been racist - whether against natives, blacks, hispanics or whatever....Racism is Us, and it always has been Us.... Us versus Them.
Liberals are hopeful of a global polity, to be achieved via Transnational Corporations (or some version thereof).. to be actualized by the mystical magic of "free markets" or whatever, dispensing the good life to one and all alike... whether real people want any part of this glorious plan or not.
'Winning' means different things to different people. Pummeling someone senseless in a cage match is winning to some. Having a long, loving life is winning to others.
In our binary body politic winning over more votes is winning, whether or not either candidate is worthy of our vote.
But I agree very much with the notion that last night's debate was a tragedy even before it began. The two people selected from among the hundreds of million of Americans available to lead and represent the interests of us all for the next four years both represent miserably inappropriate and dangerous choices.
I'll be voting for Jill Stein as the only sane and caring human on the ballot.
up
0 users have voted.
—
Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes
I don't think Trump came off as 'likeable'. He was a little unhinged and angry. He trashed the country at every turn. And that sniffing - OMG that was off-putting.
up
0 users have voted.
—
Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?
Yes, I thought Trump did much better than I expected him to. His responses cut right to the heart of the issues for middle class America, in a way that is not condescending.
No Trump fan here, but my assessment was that he did better than Hillary did. I watched all but the last 20%. He came across as sincere, she came across as smug and condescending.
I think she came across as fairly genuine. My problem is that I knew she wasn't going to answer the first strike nuke question and other inside politics crap, so it was all dissembling.
But her connection and delivery, I thought, were pretty solid per her historical standers.
up
0 users have voted.
—
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
a little to much, but did as well as expected and did nothing that will hurt him. While hrc needed to take him out early and clearly she couldn't so she did nothing to help herself. IMO middle America likes his message, so I think it was a win for Trump.
of vulgarity and obscenity passing itself off as "wit". Real grade-school playground stuff. Once the shock value wears off - and it has - there's no substance behind it.
Trump needs a better Iraq War message. When it was claimed he supported the Iraq War in 2002, he could say "Yeah, I said I guess so when asked about the war on shock jock Howard Stern's comedy show. Meanwhile, when Hillary was a US Senator, she voted to authorize the Iraq War."
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
I didn't watch it but judging from the live blogs, I'd probably have learned that sobriety isn't all it's cracked up to be?
Just kidding. The impression I got is that he talked issues; she talked about him, he wasn't polished or focused; she came across as smug and condescending (what else is new?), he missed a few opportunities but so did she and of the two of them, the one you would have expected to plug a product they'll profit from was not the one who did.
And WTF with the 'Trumped up trickle down'?
Someone thinks that's mighty clever and I'm sure when they thought of it they pictured a viral hashtag and patted themselves on the back. I wonder if she ad-libbed it, because I'd fire any speechwriter who thought it was a good line and not a pathetically obvious ploy.
While Trump will never come across as a statesman, he also did not come across as a baboonish caricature; I think the benefit of low expectations was yuuge for him tonight and I'd be surprised if he didn't see a post-debate bump in the polls based on that alone. I can picture millions of average Americans who haven't really paid attention up till now saying to themselves, "What the hell has everyone been talking about? He seems reasonable enough." And I guarantee the people saying that are the people most burned by NAFTA.
Also, just the mere fact that this "experienced, qualified woman" did not put him away decisively in the first fifteen minutes (as her campaign and of course, HRH likely expected) is not a good look on her.
It may not be lost on many, too, that he addressed her with a term of respect (Mrs. Secretary) while she called him Donald, as though she was debating the pizza delivery guy and not a Presidential candidate. Language is subtle and something like that will work on a subconscious level to reinforce people's perception of her as arrogant and condescending, even if they don't know why.
If he gets better at this (assuming he isn't trying to throw this thing) and if he can come up with some more serious sounding policy proposals... she's toast.
What I'm hoping for now is a hot mic moment where she loses her temper and starts talking about making sure the fix is in on the voting machines.
up
0 users have voted.
—
"When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained." - Mark Twain
And he was terrible. Unimaginably terrible, in his foreign policy. Oddly rather good in his domestic policy, including in ways few other Presidents have been.
As bad as he was, if he rose from the grave, my finger would twitch toward pulling the lever for him rather than these two. I hope I'd restrain myself with the understanding of what a TR sensibility would do with 21st-century military technology.
up
0 users have voted.
—
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
And he was terrible. Unimaginably terrible, in his foreign policy. Oddly rather good in his domestic policy, including in ways few other Presidents have been.
As bad as he was, if he rose from the grave, my finger would twitch toward pulling the lever for him rather than these two. I hope I'd restrain myself with the understanding of what a TR sensibility would do with 21st-century military technology.
up
0 users have voted.
—
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
How many other people here reacted to hearing that Hillary tried 'Trumped up trickle down' by immediately thinking 'projection', due to numerous Clinton public/worker/social welfare-draining policies for corporate benefit and that of the wealthiest?
up
0 users have voted.
—
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
a war criminal and Trump is a narcissistic, racist, and xenophobic billionaire and that we're up shit creek because one of them is going to be president. Everybody's talking about who won and who fared well on what parts, all missing the fucking point that is it's all a joke on We the Serfs.
"Sitting on a sofa on a Sunday afternoon.
Going to the candidates' debate.
Laugh about it, shout about it
When you've got to choose.
Every way you look at this you lose."
You're right Big Al. My name's Gus and the joke's on us.
up
0 users have voted.
—
"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey
and emotes the latter not the former. Have you ever met a poor narcissist? I have not, that may only mean that they are all in prison, the poorer ones, for getting caught. And from what we have learned today, only poorers go to prison, unless the bad person stole money from other rich people.
up
0 users have voted.
—
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Was it a game show, a wrestling match or a two-ring circus. As an aside, how dare Dr. Stein even try to turn this carefully crafted media extravaganza into some antiquated three-ring version. Doesn't she know the American attention span is no longer capable of three whole rings? Their words, not mine. Okay, yeah...mine.
Well, it started out like a game show. There was the reading of the rules. An awkward last minute microphone adjustment. The handshake between Melania and Bill. Yes, those two. The most ravishing First Lady ever (don't worry Jackie, when Trump loses your title will remain unscathed) vs. The very first 'First Gentleman' who is inexplicably an ex-president [insert whip noise]. And then with the exact intonation Alan Luden used when introducing the contestants for an episode of "Password" Clinton and Trump shook hands, gave each other a steely look, and made it to their podiums without falling.
Then Alex Trebek (oops, my bad, the moderator) announced the categories; Achieving Prosperity : Securing America. The game was afoot and I pulled my barf bucket closer. It was clever banter in the beginning, both candidates maintained a posture of respect. This was definitely a personal best for Donald Trump. He went almost 10 minutes without abusing the debate rules. My theory is this only happened because both Trump and Hillary had pre-written five-minute opening speeches being fed to them on teleprompter. It was clear that Clinton's prompter was to her left and Trump's was to his right.
That's when the Wrestling Match started. Predictably, Donald Trump lobbed the same grenades he has used since day one. However, Hillary had a couple of [obviously pre-written] smoke bombs that would manifest sporadically like rare Pokemon at a dive restaurant. I'm embarrassed to admit that I involuntarily did that high-pitched gay gasp that many of my peers (me especially) have lost the ability to control when Hillary quipped, "Donald, I know you live in your own reality...". But her top quip tonight was her comparison of Reagan's Trickle Down economic plan with what she called Trump's even worse plan "Trumped Up Trickle Down". Oh, you could see the glee in her eyes knowing that sentence was going to go viral tomorrow. As if to say 'See millennials. I'm know how gnarly it is to be LinkedIn and so does one of my script writers.' A quip so nice she had to say it twice. And she did. "Trumped Up Trickle Down"
Then it gestated into the butterfly that that could only be classified as a wrestling match. Yay! We got all three. The trifecta if you will. Each contestant began tossing out every 'anti-other' talking point we've been bombarded with. Emails, Tax Returns, Bankruptcy, Financial Savvy, Pro-TPP, Anti-TPP, Pro-TPP, Anti-TPP, "My daughter AND My sister!" (Hill Speak Translation: I'm against the TPP in it's current form. [aside: until they put in the clause that makes me the official arbiter in all corporate/government disputes.] :endtranslation). My daughter and my sister. #WhichHillary ?
Donald Trump wins the Sam Kinison Award for most obscene statement he made in response to Hillary Clinton's claim that 'Russia was behind the hacking'. Donald Trump's response inquired why she thought it was Russia, and not China, or "someone sitting on their bed that weighs 400 lbs"?
Then we went back to game show. The lightning round. All points are worth double.
Donald Trump (DT): (stands for: Delirium Tremens) My strong suit is my temperament. I have a much better temperament than Clinton. "My temperament is the best!" (yes, that is an exact quote because he apparently was raised on "Match Game" and his favorite question of all time was 'My [blank] is the best').
Moderator: "Ms. Clinton your response...." [Note: The moderator has been a coward for this entire evening...just sayin'. At one point he said, "Mr.Trump, you have 20 seconds"...60 seconds later the moderator still had not cut him off.]
Hillary Clinton (HC): (stands for: Holocaust Catalyst) "Woo! Okay." She exclaimed! She referred to Article 5 stating "An attack on one is an attack on all." and then proceeded to enumerate the attacks Trump has made on race, religion, and anything else considered a minority, except gays...he respects his DINKs (Double Income No Kids) because without them Melania wouldn't have anyone to dance with. The answer was just another example of 'I'm rubber and you're glue'. But I give her a few bonus points because she showed remarkable energy when she did the 'Woo Okay'. I'm in my early late 50s and I had my first ever case of pneumonia and I was down for two weeks. She's so resilient if she can do that 'Woo Okay' just one week after pneumonia then I'm convinced. Urrrrp.
If this were Neverland and it's denizens were assaulted with such innuendo, obfuscation and outright lies the candidates would have noses so large that they would be sitting in the laps of Bill and Melania. Who's nose lands where is left to your imagination as I bid you farewell from....."The Dempublicrat Zone" Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo whippety zap.
Comments
Eh...
I think he is doing a fair job. She is not taking him out - but he is meandering all over the place.
Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?
I think he won.
He had a message, Hillary had facts & figures.
It's a lot like the bush gore debate, where gore sighed. The pundits thought he won because of command of details. But the people just liked bush more, and were put off by gore.
Edited to correct autocorrect, which has a mind of its own.
Agree! Hillary has been graded on a curve her whole life.
In debates in particular, it doesn't matter if she lies or defends her crap policies or what. As long as she spews some numbers like the very small bore personality she is, she gets praised to the skies.
The Presidency is not a test that you can study for. Willingness and ability to memorize doesn't cut it. Neither does a crappy job as SOS and as Senator and as First Lady of the US and as First Lady of Arkansas and as a lawyer and as a director of WalMart. It means only that you were not qualified for any position you ever held. If elected, she'll be a Peter Principle President, much as she's been a Peter Principle position holder at every other level of her career.
She can't even be all that good at studying for tests. She didn't graduate with academic honors and she failed the D.C. bar exam. Maybe those tests required thinking, and not only memorizing. Maybe, you had to come up with the right policy and not only a bunch of statistics.
Taking two years to comply with a subpoena when you are First Lady of the US, then claiming you found the papers in the White House dining room was not the right answer. Voting for the Iraq War was not the right answer. Running a "racially tinged" campaign against Obama was not the right answer. Laughing maniacally at having Gaddafi killed and the prospect of bombing Iran is not the right answer. Taking two years to comply with and FOIA request is not the right answer. Having your emails deleted before you comply is not the right answer. Self dealing between yourself as Secretary of State and yourself as a member of the Clinton family, which runs the Clinton Foundation interested in the family's foundation is not the right answer.
Is Trump full of wrong answers, too? Sure, but let's not play like he is and she isn't. And she's been responsible for a hell of a lot more actual havoc than he has.
Heh, First Lady of Walmart, Secretary of Email, Senator of GS.nt
I totally read "First Lady of Walmart".
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
Director of Walmart because she was First Lady of Arkansas.
Same for landing a partnership with a corporate law firm as her first corporate law job: The Rose firm did a lot of legal work for the State of Arkansas while Bubba was Governor.
Today I Realized That She's Not Smarter Than I Am.
Here's a question none dare ask:
What has she done in her entire public history that is smart?
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
Hasn't she spent her entire career protecting women and children
From what I remember is that she helped create SCHIP along with Ted Kennedy and others.
But then a lot of women and children were hurt when she helped Bill pass welfare reform, the crime bill, and voted for the bankruptcy bill.
But then a lot of women and children were killed in during the Iraq, Libyan and Syrian wars.
And there's a reason why so many women and children are fleeing from those countries and Honduras.
And then there's the time that she spent on the board of Walmart. I'm sure that she was an outspoken critic of the way they paid and treated their employees.
But she keeps telling us that the things that she did wrong were just mistakes.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Oh my gosh.
Your font is so tiny. Did you do that? Even makes the font in my reply tiny.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
The font I see here is larger than yesterday
and oddly, FB is in micro-type. Both changes occurred after Microsoft "updated" my Win10 OS, and I am getting warnings to do incomprehensible things with my other devices, to be able to run apps or something.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
I know about the update. I just did two of my computers.
You can just ignore the popups regarding apps. I did on the computer without a touch screen. I was wondering how to change the size of the fonts in my posts here. Like sometimes I want to emphasis a word by doing that. I thought maybe you knew.
Or maybe my iPhone is just being weird. On it, my c99 logo disappeared, and I had a unicorn logo instead.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Not an issue...
with the site, it's probably on your end.
I just sent you a query on this. I have a planned experiment.
If there are two of us there will be more. Familiarity may make it off-pitting, if newbies have this problem, I am afraid they think we all have low vision. And we want a younger addition market.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Again...
it's not an issue with c99p, it has to be something on your end. Operating system or browser updates are the first thing I would look at.
I am not (yet) so centered as you, JtC.
Working on it, along with three crises today, all at this point at points I just wait. And hope bp drops. But I got a flu shot today!!
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Probably a message to us
Probably a message to us Berniebros from Microsoft/Google that King Hagar is planning to kill off The Last Unicorn with monstrous Red Bull and we're all doomed...
Edited to add what my semi-facetious response was intended for, since it's way the heck upthread.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
She Had Nothing To Do With Creating or Passing SCHIP
That's another example of her jumping in front of a parade. It was Ted Kennedy's policy. She had no hand in drafting it. She wasn't allowed to help lobby for it on the Hill, because after the HillaryCare fiasco, they all hated her.
Her claim to ownership of this policy is that she said she talked Bill into supporting it, and Kennedy graciously said that her "pillowtalk" level lobbying was important. So the best case here is that her husband, the Democratic President, who had put her in charge of health care reform that she utterly failed at, agreed to sign a bill created by the Democratic Lion of the Senate that would conveniently help Hillary look better by delivering some modest improvement in health care policy. Left unsaid is why it would have taken any kind of skill or effort to get said Democratic President to sign a bill passed by the Democratic Lion of the Senate that also helped his legacy and his ambitious wife's reputation and resume.
Also left unsaid: if talking your husband into doing something demonstrates political competence, shouldn't Nancy Reagan have gotten to do the third Reagan term?
Thank you for making those points, Jay. EOM
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Nancy Reagan
I think Nancy Reagan got the 2nd term.
Exactly! And Kennedy even walked back "pillow talk."
Don't even ask about Orrin Hatch.
http://caucus99percent.com/content/which-hillary-potus-ads-have-you-been...
Her role in SCHIP may well have been mostly imaginary.
http://caucus99percent.com/content/which-hillary-potus-ads-have-you-been...
She married someone well-connected to Senator Fulbright.
Her wiki goes into exquisite detail about her college and law school years and how her fellow students at Wellesley chose her to be their first student speaker. However, there is no mention of being graduate with academic honors from either college or law school. Contrast that with the detailed description of her high school distinctions.
Voted most likely to succeed in high school? Wow.
And, for her first act after law school, she failed the D.C. bar exam. Now, I am not saying that means she is dumb. I am saying there is no evidence of academic achievement after high school, other than, of course, getting into Wellesley and Yale.
Most likely to succeed by
Most likely to succeed by cheating and instilling fear of her vindictive retribution?
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
It could just mean her unbridled ambition was obvious to
her classmates, even then. Remember, she claims to have canvassed for Nixon at age 13 and she was a Goldwater Girl while still in high school.
When I watched I thought how amazing it was that we were
watching two criminal minds (if not actual criminals) debate each other for the Presidency of the United States. I decided that it was all coming down to scale and which metric of criminality would appeal most (least? hard to fathom on such a bizarre metric) to American voters
For instance:
Trump screwed contractors on his buildings but
Clinton was on the Board for Walmart, famous for underpaying it's employees and making Americans pick up the tab by supplementing their peon wages with Medicaid and food stamps
So which is worse? Screwing a limited number of contractors or screwing millions of employees for America's largest employer? You be the judge.
Trump hid his taxes but
Clinton hid an entire State Department
So which is worse? I always say people who hide things have things to hide. You be the judge
Trump made millions from his fake for-profit university Trump University and is being investigated for fraud but
Clinton earned many more millions by hubby fronting for for-profit Laureate University, which is refiling and correcting its SEC filings due to " five material weaknesses in our internal controls over financial reporting" There's also a request by 64 House Republicans (natch) for FBI, IRS, and FTC investigations into the overlap between the Clintons and Laureate. And Clinton as well as Trump, may have misused the term "university" in their Clinton Global Initiative University, just like Trump.
So which is worse? Trumps's profiteering in education or Clinton's profiteering from education? You be the judge
Trump shows an uncomfortable comfort with the concept of blowing people up but Hillary has actually done it and laughed afterwards
Which is worse? You be the judge.
I could go on, but you get the idea. The two candidates have many weird correlations and overlaps. In the end, I personally find them both completely unacceptable and cannot understand how we came to this pass.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
White-collar crooks running for and winning the job of POTUS
are nothing new. I missed the "debate." Just 2 more stinkers running. Already filled in my mental ballot long ago. Rec'd!
Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.
Both based in NY State, too,
something on which I had not focused until today. New York has a "favorite son" and a "favorite daughter" running for President in 2016. How long has it been since the nominee of the Republican Party and the nominee of the Democratic Party have been from the same state?
Hillary has never been anything but a carpetbagger.
She settled on NY in 2000 because there was an open Senate seat and that is where Wall Street is...
" In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy "
Both based in NY State, too, something on which
I had not focused until today.
New York has a "favorite son" and a "favorite daughter" running for President in 2016. How long has it been since the nominee of the Republican Party and the nominee of the Democratic Party have been from the same state?
They're both psychopaths,
They're both psychopaths, Trump simply hasn't yet had the opportunities of scale Hillary has.
Vote non-corporate, non-fascist, non-psychopath, vote Green - and refuse to let blatant electoral cheating stand or accept the results yet again 'as a done deal'! The last chance is here.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Trump totally won the debate.
Hands down. Not the reasonable and factual aspect of it, but the appearance of it. And as we all should know by now, the TV is mostly about appearance. It's about how you look, and about how you act -... it's not about what you say.
Trump killed her. Face to face on a split-screen... no contest. Trump was obviously the Dominant Male, and Hillary failed to overcome this natural advantage. She relies on facts and figures, a rational analysis, while he relies on both emotion and common sense.
In many ways Hillary is right and Trump is wrong, but the bottom line is... which candidate will be the more persuasive to the voting public. A hundred miliion people or so, are said to have tuned in to it.. Judging solely from this televized debate, I'd put trump as the clear winner.
native
The pundits in the corporate media, of course,
disagree, but then again they believe in the meritocracy that HRC represents.
Meanwhile, at the very start I found it interesting in their choice of apparel. HRC was in Republican red while Trump sported a Democrat blue tie. Not sure of how positioning is decided but there is some symbolism that can be found in the fact that Trump faced the audience from the left and HRC from the right. Optics.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
You bet!
These things are important. Trump's blue tie and Hillary's red dress as well. Overall, Trump's conservative attire worked better than Hillary's pseudo-passionate wardrobe.
native
Many people think that wearing red clothing is a sign of power
But I've been told that red is a sign of anger.
At least she did wear that dress that she wore on the plane during her first appearance after she rested from pneumonia.
Someone's comment was it looked like she stole the drapes from a Ramada Inn and made a dress out of them.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
I normally do not comment on appearance and this is mean
but if she wears purple to the next debate which would accurately reflect her sense of royalty and she is on the same meds she will look like this:
I heard it was her usual pants suit.
Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.
Reagan Red
She looked like Nancy risen from the grave and it did NOT present a good picture. All I could think about, besides an internal argument about whether they'd injected her with Botox or formaldehyde, was how much she had to be intentionally trying to look like Nancy Reagan, between the red clothing and rigidly coiffed hair.
But at least she finally wore politically appropriate colors.
Economic: -9.13, Social: -8.56
Strabismus
Hillary departed from her usual staid appearance, with the red dress and the frozen hair. But IMO that look was needed to disguise her liberal use of mascara and eye liner. Her makeup artist gave her 'cat eyes' which allowed her to squint more and blink more, things she had to do to disguise her strabismus. It was definitely there if you looked for it. Another thing she did was look to the left a lot, and since the strabismus affects her right eye it let her keep the wrong eye centered for the camera, she essentially transposed the problem to the other eye.
F the F'n D's
I Wonder If the Split Screen Changed the Broadcast.
I watched on CSPAN 2 with the Split Screen.
I think Drumpf exceeded expectations, Hillary was fine. No change in strong support, but I think Drumpf won because he didn't bite the head off a live bat or call Hillary names.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
I think you are probably quite right about this...
The opinions you are trying to move with your debate performance at this point are those who can actually be persuaded to vote for either Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump. True Swing Voters. How many people do you know who are like that? They are extremely difficult to find, comprising only about 4%-7% of those who show up to vote. You might never in your lifetime meet any of these people, but they are out there. They are the ones who change their minds every time they see something in the headlines...
The thing about these Swing Voters is that they are mostly clueless about government, about business, about history, about most of the things that T and C talked about tonight. But they do read faces and moods and emotions.
From the brief amount of time I watched the debate, I could see that Trump was coming across in a way that would have reassured some of these Swing Voters, who had been reading a lot of criticism about the guy from MSM and the Clinton News Network. Hillary, on the other hand, was the same old phony presentation of herself, with her attempts to sound knowledgeable on various issues. I couldn't see that she did anything to help herself with the Swing Voters.
Then again, I didn't watch the whole thing, so I can't really make any predictions, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Trump gain on her after this first encounter between them.
James Kroeger
What arrogance James
"They are the ones who change their minds every time they see something in the headlines...
The thing about these Swing Voters is that they are mostly clueless about government, about business, about history, about most of the things that T and C talked about tonight"
Boy am I happy to see such erudite, competent posters here. It gives me lots of faith to see such competent, intelligent persons truly do exist out there. A** hole
Whoa! So not cool to personally attack another member. :/ eom
"Intelligence is the ability to adapt to change." Stephen Hawking
NEW: http://www.twitter.com/trueblueinwdc
Lighten up...
on the personal insults, Scheindog.
How wrong of you...
...to interpret my comment as arrogance.
However much you may want to convince yourself otherwise, the vast majority of the electorate does not know much about history, about the workings of politics, about how businesses function, etc.
Haven't you ever noticed how the polls move according to how much negative press a President/candidate gets in the final months before an election? It's only a few percentage points typically, but move they do.
Wishing that 'marginal' voters (those who may or may not vote) were much more informed than they are isn't going to change the reality.
For what it's worth, as an educator, I do not blame any individual or group for their ignorance of various topics; it's not their fault. But it's a reality nevertheless that any sober group of political activists needs to face up to.
How dare you suggest that I feel superior to the uninformed, who are constantly being victimized by the Republicans and the Centrists of the Dem Party. As someone who has advocated for the disadvantaged for decades, I deeply resent your insinuation. and the mindlessness of your attack on someone who is actually on your side.
James Kroeger
A separate point that he's making, however,
is quite right: that there aren't very many true swing voters in this election cycle.
I expect Hill will bleed some more voters, b/c it's her pattern to start high and sink, sink, sink, but there isn't a lot of "give" in this election.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Botox, facial treatments
I didn't watch or listen to debates.
Weak stomach.
Now know what Her Heinious was doing while "preparing" - Botox and facial treatments. Yup. Appearances matter. No doubt about it, she had "work/treatments" done to look as she did. No makeup can account for the change in how she looked.
Also, closer fitting jacket - ask any woman ( or man for that matter) - there was a lotta work done.
Also loved the pic of her standing on her little platform.
ARE THE DEBATES OVER YET????
Verdict: Trump still has momentum.
As long as she didn't Body
As long as she didn't Body Snatch one of her doubles, lol.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
a rational analysis? I think not.
I think her attacks worked to some degree
Hillary pissed off Trump a couple of times and even got him to basically admit he doesn't pay federal income taxes. He didn't look good trying to interrupt her, and she didn't back off for him. Later in the debate he calmed down (some say he got tired).
"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."
That income tax will look fine until Foundation Tax material
gets processed. The Clintons may owe as much more as Trump or way more than that. Remember one of her 'tells' is also one of projecting.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Trump totally won the debate.
Hands down. Not the reasonable and factual aspect of it, but the appearance of it. And as we all should know by now, the TV is mostly about appearance. It's about how you look, and about how you act -... it's not about what you say.
Trump killed her. Face to face on a split-screen... no contest. Trump was obviously the Dominant Male, and Hillary failed to overcome this natural advantage. She relies on dubiious facts and figures, a somewhat rational analysis, while he relies on pure emotion and (fairly obvious) common sense.
In many ways Hillary is right and Trump is wrong - unquestionably. But the bottom line is... which candidate will be the more persuasive to the voting public. A hundred miliion Americans or so, are said to have tuned in to this debate.. judging solely from this televised version, I'd put Trump as the clear winner of it. Yes he is a racist, a xenbophobe ,but so have a large proportion of Americans always been racist - whether against natives, blacks, hispanics or whatever....Racism is Us, and it always has been Us.... Us versus Them.
Liberals are hopeful of a global polity, to be achieved via Transnational Corporations (or some version thereof).. to be actualized by the mystical magic of "free markets" or whatever, dispensing the good life to one and all alike... whether real people want any part of this glorious plan or not.
native
nobody won anything, the US has lost it and we all will suffer
tremendously.
https://www.euronews.com/
Someone always wins, whether we like it or not.
'Winning' means different things to different people. Pummeling someone senseless in a cage match is winning to some. Having a long, loving life is winning to others.
In our binary body politic winning over more votes is winning, whether or not either candidate is worthy of our vote.
But I agree very much with the notion that last night's debate was a tragedy even before it began. The two people selected from among the hundreds of million of Americans available to lead and represent the interests of us all for the next four years both represent miserably inappropriate and dangerous choices.
I'll be voting for Jill Stein as the only sane and caring human on the ballot.
Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes
Me too,
but Trump won the debate with Clinton. Stein is not playing in the same league.
native
Yeah, literally, since they won't let her in the building.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Except...
I don't think Trump came off as 'likeable'. He was a little unhinged and angry. He trashed the country at every turn. And that sniffing - OMG that was off-putting.
Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?
Given that was her 39th or 40th one on one debate and his first,
that she failed to take him out speaks volumes.
well, it looks the only way you can take out Trump
is put a plug into his mouth, cover it with duct tape and put him into a straight jacket. That will do it.
https://www.euronews.com/
Can we do that to both
Can we do that to both corporate candidates? Pretty please? Only when speaking publicly or to donors, of course.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
We have learned that for some reason, when a lot of people
are on this site at the same time, there are double posts all over the place! LOL!
And that Trump does actually have the capacity to prepare for something. He is less than 100% buffoon.
Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.
Yep, this should make Hillary very nervous!
Yes, I thought Trump did much better than I expected him to. His responses cut right to the heart of the issues for middle class America, in a way that is not condescending.
No Trump fan here, but my assessment was that he did better than Hillary did. I watched all but the last 20%. He came across as sincere, she came across as smug and condescending.
Thing is, even if they tied, then I think the win goes to Trump;
lower expectations for him means he'll look good just for being average.
Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.
Funny. I Thought This Was One of Her More Compelling Emotive
performances.
I think she came across as fairly genuine. My problem is that I knew she wasn't going to answer the first strike nuke question and other inside politics crap, so it was all dissembling.
But her connection and delivery, I thought, were pretty solid per her historical standers.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
Good to know. I didn't watch any of it yet, I'm going by the
blogging about it. I'll catch some clips later today.
Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.
Funny he talked mostly
About issues she talked about him. Oh, and she made me believe if elected will go to war with Russia.....
T rump might have rambled on
a little to much, but did as well as expected and did nothing that will hurt him. While hrc needed to take him out early and clearly she couldn't so she did nothing to help herself. IMO middle America likes his message, so I think it was a win for Trump.
What have we learned?
I have learned
that Trump is a skillful debater, and Hillary is not.
native
he is
a skillful debater, like the doctor who pulls out his penis and sprays his urine into the patient's mouth, is a skillful surgeon.
I'm getting really tired of that schtick
of vulgarity and obscenity passing itself off as "wit". Real grade-school playground stuff. Once the shock value wears off - and it has - there's no substance behind it.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
rabelais, joyce, burroughs, celine:
they give you a big, wet, kiss.
(rolleyes) n/t
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
open eyes
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7TKUEzpyiQ]
What debate where you watching?
Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?
He needs work.
Trump needs a better Iraq War message. When it was claimed he supported the Iraq War in 2002, he could say "Yeah, I said I guess so when asked about the war on shock jock Howard Stern's comedy show. Meanwhile, when Hillary was a US Senator, she voted to authorize the Iraq War."
ʇsɹıɟ ʇı pıɐs oɥʍ ʍouʞ ʇ,uop ı
˙uo ʇods sı ,,ǝʌɹnɔ ɐ uo pǝpɐɹƃ, sı dɯnɹʇ plɐuop ʇɐɥʇ ʞɹɐɯǝɹ ǝɥʇ ʇnq
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
woah
How did you do that?
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
ǝnbıuɥɔǝʇ ǝɥʇ pǝuɹɐǝl ı
˙spunɟ ʎɯ ɟo ǝuılɔǝp ǝɥʇ ƃuıʇuǝsǝɹdǝɹ ɐloqɐɹɐd pǝdɐɥs pɹɐʍuʍop ɐ ƃuısn ʇunoɔɔɐ ʞuɐq ʎɯ pǝɥɔʇɐʍ ı ˙ǝʌɹnɔ ɐ uo pǝpɐɹƃ oslɐ sɐʍ ı ǝɹǝɥʍ ˙ʎʇısɹǝʌıun dɯnɹʇ ʇɐ
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
I suspect that her keyboard
I suspect that her keyboard gets better drugs than the rest of us...
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
What did I learn?
I didn't watch it but judging from the live blogs, I'd probably have learned that sobriety isn't all it's cracked up to be?
Just kidding. The impression I got is that he talked issues; she talked about him, he wasn't polished or focused; she came across as smug and condescending (what else is new?), he missed a few opportunities but so did she and of the two of them, the one you would have expected to plug a product they'll profit from was not the one who did.
And WTF with the 'Trumped up trickle down'?
Someone thinks that's mighty clever and I'm sure when they thought of it they pictured a viral hashtag and patted themselves on the back. I wonder if she ad-libbed it, because I'd fire any speechwriter who thought it was a good line and not a pathetically obvious ploy.
While Trump will never come across as a statesman, he also did not come across as a baboonish caricature; I think the benefit of low expectations was yuuge for him tonight and I'd be surprised if he didn't see a post-debate bump in the polls based on that alone. I can picture millions of average Americans who haven't really paid attention up till now saying to themselves, "What the hell has everyone been talking about? He seems reasonable enough." And I guarantee the people saying that are the people most burned by NAFTA.
Also, just the mere fact that this "experienced, qualified woman" did not put him away decisively in the first fifteen minutes (as her campaign and of course, HRH likely expected) is not a good look on her.
It may not be lost on many, too, that he addressed her with a term of respect (Mrs. Secretary) while she called him Donald, as though she was debating the pizza delivery guy and not a Presidential candidate. Language is subtle and something like that will work on a subconscious level to reinforce people's perception of her as arrogant and condescending, even if they don't know why.
If he gets better at this (assuming he isn't trying to throw this thing) and if he can come up with some more serious sounding policy proposals... she's toast.
What I'm hoping for now is a hot mic moment where she loses her temper and starts talking about making sure the fix is in on the voting machines.
"When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained." - Mark Twain
Roosevelt Was Not a Statesman. He Was a Stick Wielding,
sincere, yet flawed, tough guy who spoke his mind and did what was right.
That's what Drumpf is going for. I didn't buy it, but I don't buy much of that marketing crap.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
Teddy, not FDR, just to clarify
And on his laziest day TR could probably run rings around Trump. Maybe even literally.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Yes, literally.
And he was terrible. Unimaginably terrible, in his foreign policy. Oddly rather good in his domestic policy, including in ways few other Presidents have been.
As bad as he was, if he rose from the grave, my finger would twitch toward pulling the lever for him rather than these two. I hope I'd restrain myself with the understanding of what a TR sensibility would do with 21st-century military technology.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Yes, literally.
And he was terrible. Unimaginably terrible, in his foreign policy. Oddly rather good in his domestic policy, including in ways few other Presidents have been.
As bad as he was, if he rose from the grave, my finger would twitch toward pulling the lever for him rather than these two. I hope I'd restrain myself with the understanding of what a TR sensibility would do with 21st-century military technology.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Exellent comment.
Hillary was far less aggressive than she needed to be. Too much wonk and not enough whack. Next polls will show Trump ahead.
native
How many other people here
How many other people here reacted to hearing that Hillary tried 'Trumped up trickle down' by immediately thinking 'projection', due to numerous Clinton public/worker/social welfare-draining policies for corporate benefit and that of the wealthiest?
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
What did they want us to learn? We already know Clinton is
a war criminal and Trump is a narcissistic, racist, and xenophobic billionaire and that we're up shit creek because one of them is going to be president. Everybody's talking about who won and who fared well on what parts, all missing the fucking point that is it's all a joke on We the Serfs.
From Simon & Garfunkel's "Mrs. Robinson"
"Sitting on a sofa on a Sunday afternoon.
Going to the candidates' debate.
Laugh about it, shout about it
When you've got to choose.
Every way you look at this you lose."
You're right Big Al. My name's Gus and the joke's on us.
"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey
Big Al, he is a millionaire who wants to be a billionaire
and emotes the latter not the former. Have you ever met a poor narcissist? I have not, that may only mean that they are all in prison, the poorer ones, for getting caught. And from what we have learned today, only poorers go to prison, unless the bad person stole money from other rich people.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
I did not bother to watch
I did not bother to watch what I knew would be a bland, not hard hitting fest of smoke and mirrors. Nothing of substance was asked I bet.
So long, and thanks for all the fish
A magician keeps you looking the other way.
Was it a game show, a wrestling match or a two-ring circus. As an aside, how dare Dr. Stein even try to turn this carefully crafted media extravaganza into some antiquated three-ring version. Doesn't she know the American attention span is no longer capable of three whole rings? Their words, not mine. Okay, yeah...mine.
Well, it started out like a game show. There was the reading of the rules. An awkward last minute microphone adjustment. The handshake between Melania and Bill. Yes, those two. The most ravishing First Lady ever (don't worry Jackie, when Trump loses your title will remain unscathed) vs. The very first 'First Gentleman' who is inexplicably an ex-president [insert whip noise]. And then with the exact intonation Alan Luden used when introducing the contestants for an episode of "Password" Clinton and Trump shook hands, gave each other a steely look, and made it to their podiums without falling.
Then Alex Trebek (oops, my bad, the moderator) announced the categories; Achieving Prosperity : Securing America. The game was afoot and I pulled my barf bucket closer. It was clever banter in the beginning, both candidates maintained a posture of respect. This was definitely a personal best for Donald Trump. He went almost 10 minutes without abusing the debate rules. My theory is this only happened because both Trump and Hillary had pre-written five-minute opening speeches being fed to them on teleprompter. It was clear that Clinton's prompter was to her left and Trump's was to his right.
That's when the Wrestling Match started. Predictably, Donald Trump lobbed the same grenades he has used since day one. However, Hillary had a couple of [obviously pre-written] smoke bombs that would manifest sporadically like rare Pokemon at a dive restaurant. I'm embarrassed to admit that I involuntarily did that high-pitched gay gasp that many of my peers (me especially) have lost the ability to control when Hillary quipped, "Donald, I know you live in your own reality...". But her top quip tonight was her comparison of Reagan's Trickle Down economic plan with what she called Trump's even worse plan "Trumped Up Trickle Down". Oh, you could see the glee in her eyes knowing that sentence was going to go viral tomorrow. As if to say 'See millennials. I'm know how gnarly it is to be LinkedIn and so does one of my script writers.' A quip so nice she had to say it twice. And she did. "Trumped Up Trickle Down"
Then it gestated into the butterfly that that could only be classified as a wrestling match. Yay! We got all three. The trifecta if you will. Each contestant began tossing out every 'anti-other' talking point we've been bombarded with. Emails, Tax Returns, Bankruptcy, Financial Savvy, Pro-TPP, Anti-TPP, Pro-TPP, Anti-TPP, "My daughter AND My sister!" (Hill Speak Translation: I'm against the TPP in it's current form. [aside: until they put in the clause that makes me the official arbiter in all corporate/government disputes.] :endtranslation). My daughter and my sister. #WhichHillary ?
Donald Trump wins the Sam Kinison Award for most obscene statement he made in response to Hillary Clinton's claim that 'Russia was behind the hacking'. Donald Trump's response inquired why she thought it was Russia, and not China, or "someone sitting on their bed that weighs 400 lbs"?
Then we went back to game show. The lightning round. All points are worth double.
Donald Trump (DT): (stands for: Delirium Tremens) My strong suit is my temperament. I have a much better temperament than Clinton. "My temperament is the best!" (yes, that is an exact quote because he apparently was raised on "Match Game" and his favorite question of all time was 'My [blank] is the best').
Moderator: "Ms. Clinton your response...." [Note: The moderator has been a coward for this entire evening...just sayin'. At one point he said, "Mr.Trump, you have 20 seconds"...60 seconds later the moderator still had not cut him off.]
Hillary Clinton (HC): (stands for: Holocaust Catalyst) "Woo! Okay." She exclaimed! She referred to Article 5 stating "An attack on one is an attack on all." and then proceeded to enumerate the attacks Trump has made on race, religion, and anything else considered a minority, except gays...he respects his DINKs (Double Income No Kids) because without them Melania wouldn't have anyone to dance with. The answer was just another example of 'I'm rubber and you're glue'. But I give her a few bonus points because she showed remarkable energy when she did the 'Woo Okay'. I'm in my early late 50s and I had my first ever case of pneumonia and I was down for two weeks. She's so resilient if she can do that 'Woo Okay' just one week after pneumonia then I'm convinced. Urrrrp.
If this were Neverland and it's denizens were assaulted with such innuendo, obfuscation and outright lies the candidates would have noses so large that they would be sitting in the laps of Bill and Melania. Who's nose lands where is left to your imagination as I bid you farewell from....."The Dempublicrat Zone" Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo whippety zap.
#BeatTheRich
The people, united, will never be defeated.
Pages