Against Adolph Reed's "It's Important"

As of yesterday Adolph Reed had a piece up on the Common Dreams website titled "Vote for the Lying Neoliberal Warmonger: It's Important" that, if anything, makes an excellent opportunity to reveal the strength of the powerful political forces locking us into the current mass suicide path we're on, and to clarify the issues to be made evident with a vote for Jill Stein. At any rate, read the link carefully, then consider:

1) Trump is not going to win. Trump is sabotaging his own campaign right now. The lying neoliberal warmonger is going to win, because none of the nice elites with quid pro quo arrangements with her wants to see their vast quantities of money wasted. And didn't Trump once say that he was going to leave "foreign and domestic policy" up to Pence? If Reed really wants a neoliberal warmonger making policy decisions, well, there it is.

2) The lying neoliberal warmonger is going to enable a smarter, more resolute version of Trump at some point, 2020 or 2024, and at that point we will get a real Nazi in the White House. And we of the sectarian persuasion will not be able to do anything about it.

3) If y'all were worried about a Republican Congress, the lying neoliberal warmonger's sabotaging of the Democrats (by keeping money for herself that she raised for downticket candidates) ought to seal that for you. At any rate, the Republican establishment doesn't like Trump either.

4) The Green Party is not a closed organization. If Adolph Reed had wanted the Green Party to be something different than the sectarian party which it currently is, he could have participated in its meetings. But instead we are treated to an armchair critique of its activities. I await Reed's first-person narrative of how he spent decades trying to change the Green Party from within, and all for nought. This critique applies to the rest of you, too. I've been to Green plenaries, local meetings, and meetings of county councils. Have you?

5) Reed has the wrong German election in mind. The one that mattered was the April 1932 Presidential election, in which von Hindenburg was the lesser evil who defeated Hitler. Nine months later, von Hindenburg appointed Hitler. That was the election in which the true meaning of lesser evil voting was exposed.

As for the failed KPD-SPD coalition, Reed can blame the KPD, and only the KPD, all he wants. The problem with such an argument, as Louis Proyect pointed out last month, was that the SPD worked through the Twenties to create the conditions for Hitler's triumph when it was in power. So they're to blame as well.

6) The direction of debate about this election appears to be largely controlled by "liberals" who, having enabled Democratic Party neoliberalism for three decades now, are all freaking out that Donald Trump is going to win safe states if we vote for Jill Stein. No such thing is going to happen. Donald Trump's own campaign is focused upon three states (Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin), and he probably wouldn't win even if he won all of those states because his campaign is so inept, underfunded, and understaffed with relation to that of the lying neoliberal warmonger that he'll probably lose Florida.

The lesson to be learned here, for nearly all of the audience for this message, is that nothing is going to be changed by a vote for Jill Stein except for this: Jill Stein will get more votes. For the importance of this, see 7) below.

7) These same "liberals" are making ridiculous arguments about what would supposedly happen if Jill Stein were to be elected President. No such thing is going to happen. The point of a vote for Jill Stein is to give the Green Party FEC funding if Stein gets 5% of the vote, or to put her in the debates if she can get a poll scoring 15%. Such a campaign can all be done in safe states if it makes the likes of Reed uncomfortable. The Green Party needs exposure if it is to stop being a sectarian party.

8) The audience for a "Left" argument shrinks every time the "Left" makes lesser-of-two-evils advocacy its main priority. At some point the shrinkage becomes so evident that nobody is paying attention. We're already very close to the point at which absolutely nobody will be paying attention to Adolph Reed, me, or you.

The window for Jill Stein's 5% goal is damned small. Keep in mind how little exposure Stein has been getting when compared to Ralph Nader in 2000, and keep in mind that half of Nader's potential voters deserted him on the day before the election. Likely outcome: Stein will get 2-3% of the vote, which is about what Nader got.

The problem, then, is not that we don't vote for lesser-evil candidates even though "It's Important." The problem is that we fail to exist as a political entity because we don't fight at all.

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I'm sorry. I couldn't make it past the beginning. Just more CTR bullshit.

It's not really important to defeat Trump. It's just not. I realize he commits lots and lots of breaches of etiquette, which is of course the one unforgivable crime of the Left. But Hillary's domination of media (even to the point of Reed's stupid essay) show that she's a lot closer to the mustachioed one than Trump is. That kind of media control has never been seen before in American politics. CTR is even out to destroy Dr. Drew, the popular, affable youth-focused TV and radio board certified doctor, for suggesting she's in serious medical trouble and needs better healthcare.

I also think it's interesting that Hillary's brand of identity politics has already breached the last few islands of resistance online. Including this place, and Kossacks for Sanders. Feel bad, white people. Criticize only yourselves. You're the problem. Unlike you, She carries hot sauce. Very remarkable difference from only a few weeks ago.

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Cassiodorus's picture

The names, at least. Are they related?

And I went to high school, briefly, with Drew Pinsky aka Dr. Drew. How's he doing?

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"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama

Hilarious. What was he like?

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Cassiodorus's picture

I was a frosh when he was a senior, in 1976-1977 I think. I think he was one of the leadership types of his class.

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"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama

How was Troy doing after that Trojan horse thing?

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

by the way, if that's feminism, I'm former KGB.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Thank you for this diary. Like you, I have a great respect for Adolph Reed, not so much for cultural gadfly Ishmael Reed, but I cannot agree with him here. There are two areas in which I think I can add to what you have said above.

About Mrs. C.: OK I claim white female privilege here in that I , and other white female never Hillary voters, know who and what this woman is. I must have known dozens like her, the basic main street clubwoman. Women such as her can be found in any city or sizeable town, I believe Phyllis Schlafley is another such. They can be recognized by their visibility, their seizing of leadership roles wherever they go, their almost total incompetence in carrying out the duties of leadership, their constant intriguing and back stabbing, their relentless pursuit of power, position and wealth and their complete lack of principle. It was reported in 2008 that Hillary told her campaign staff that "I can't control Bill"; I think it might be more accurate to say that Bill can't control her. Other characteristics include marriage for purposes of social advancement, allowing the husband/Ken doll to pursue his pleasures elsewhere, and the surrounding of herself by a circle of girlfriend ( and occasional boyfriend) acolytes, who are as selfish and unprincipled as their patroness.

With regard to Hillary herself, there is also the shocking lack of taste--c.US$200,000 spent on a "designer" wardrobe--not even a pretense of buying from American sources--which looks like US$200,000 worth of 70s leisure suits in colors not found in nature-- no notion of deportment or conduct--Miss Piggy in designer threads-- and her let them eat cake reveling in all manner of luxury, expense and fancypants events. Yes, this matters because a President H. Clinton will be representing me at home and abroad.

The thought of president H. Clinton gives me nightmares. The Democrats, I am WFP, expecting to be able to shove her down our throats is a bridge too far. Not to mention that she flat out stole the nomination.

Second point is that I think the Green Party is fine by itself. There need to be parties of conscience. I would like to also see, in addition to the Greens, a revived Farmer Labor party, and maybe other small to medium parties, whose purpose would be to help keep the duopoly honest.

About Clinton supporters among the minority communities and their accusations of privilege, I would simply say that voting for civil rights, against militarized police, and so on, clearly the right thing to do, and beneficial to all, is one thing, but voting for various patronage rackets, on either side of the duopoly, is something else again.

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Mary Bennett

Cassiodorus's picture

If that's all you think the Green Party can be, and that may very well be the case, I'd be interested in what sort of party you think could actually compete while at the same time offering us something for our hard-won tax dollars -- because neither of the major parties does that today.

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"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama

I don't know that I have a good answer for you as yet, Cassiodorus. That is something I still am working on. Greens to me is the Lorax. Someone has to speak for the trees.

I do think that a competitive party first of all needs to be a peace party. I was dismayed at the first Democratic debate that there did not seem to be any peace candidate. Libertarians, to their credit, are front and center with their proposal for a non-interventionist foreign policy and dismantling of foreign military bases.

Second, the hypothetical party needs to address the high cost of housing + utilities for working, or formerly working, people and families. I know of three ways to force down the price of housing, especially rents, and all three are politically verboten. Those are restricting immigration, or rent and price controls, or, as was suggested by David Steele, heavily taxing, or restricting, absentee ownership of land and housing. Vancouver BC recently imposed a 15% property tax on foreign ownership of real estate, following the lead of some cities in Australia, I think, and house prices have finally begun to fall in those cities. There is some discussion of this over at zero hedge.

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Mary Bennett

Hawkfish's picture

Using Quantitative Easing (central bank debt purchases) to stimulate the economy without congress by buying up student debt is kind of brilliant. Certainly makes more sense than Hellery's "please the teacher with the answer from the book that any fool can see isn't working" and the GOP/Libertarian "double down on what got us into this mess in the first place".

(Oh, and yes, she also speaks for the trees. Love that metaphor!)

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We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg

Stein's economic policies is one of the reasons I plan to vote for her. That, and the hope that a sizeable vote for her in NY, something like 10-15%, would be an embarrassment for Clinton. The reason I want to see H. Clinton embarrassed is that I want Democratic congresspersons to start considering that voting for whatever the Clinton WH wants is not necessarily a good career move.

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Mary Bennett

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

Heather Chandler, to be precise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRGSU13Q_4k

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Perfect! Thanks for a good laugh this morning.
Only a woman could say this, and you nailed it. Especially the part about "your basic mainstreet clubwoman... found in any city or sizable town". Might I add in any church, or PTA across the country.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

Voting for civil rights, against militarized police, and so on, clearly the right thing to do, and beneficial to all, is one thing — but voting for various patronage rackets, on either side of the duopoly, is something else again.

This is the first time I realized how much real damage has been done here. It defies logic and understanding, this cheap, self-negating pandering to Boss Clinton, Inc., the manufactured construct that unapologetically harmed two generations of the same demographic, using it badly both times. There will be bitter tears over this road taken.

About Mrs. C.: OK I claim white female privilege here in that I, and other white female never Hillary voters, know who and what this woman is. I must have known dozens like her….

That's it. I could not put my finger on the visceral knowing I have of Clinton. But it's because its so familiar to me. I've known her kind in several iconic places in my own life, had encounters the thing you describe. The cold tendril of chaos she drags behind her.

What a hot mess we have here.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato

Trumps new campaign manager, brought up the what have the Clintons really done for minorities today with Chris Matthews - I think it was him; it was radio. So look for trump to start using that in his stump speech. Since he's in Baton Rouge today we might get a sneak peek.

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Chaos indeed. This cannot end well.

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Mary Bennett

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

that would make Goebbels weep with envy.

Wonderful writing here, btw: It defies logic and understanding, this cheap, self-negating pandering to Boss Clinton, Inc., the manufactured construct that unapologetically harmed two generations of the same demographic, using it badly both times.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Wink's picture

our last chance. I don't know how we - 99% - recover from Hillary's first term. And if there somehow is a second term fuhghetaboutit. Game over. Fact is, Obama did nothing to slow this downward spiral other than beating Mittens. With Mittens it just would have happened quicker. Obama can claim, after the fact, that, "I did my best... ," but he did nothing to reverse this. Or much to slow it down. Nothing. Bernie at least would have made an effort to slow it down. HRC is all on board the 1% Express.

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Like FDR saved the US from Fascism.

Now there's nobody who can hold all the separate arms of the resistance together, even though the resistance outnumbers everybody else by a long shot. Everything is fracturing into factions where all the sides are wrong and there's nobody to support. Outright racists vs. leftist SJW authoritarians. The anti-working-class elite vs. the unhinged nativists vs the ineffectual whiners. Millennials vs Boomers. Wall Street vs the extractors vs Silicon Valley. White vs black vs latino vs Asian. I expect lots and lots of violence at this point. It's unlikely to aim at the right target.

Oh, well!

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Wink's picture

or four pro-Bernie groups in my neck of the woods - near Syracuse - that I'm a member, including "Move to Amend" (the constitution to blow up Citizens United). "We" can't get all off them on the same page to accomplish much of anything becuz everyone has their own agenda, and too many are still waiting around "to see what Bernie does." [rolls eyes] "Wink, we need to wait for Bernie... "
Well, there's no time to wait for Bernie. We do not have that luxury. It's act now or give it all away to the Ubers and Filthys (rich, 1%, oligarchy). I'm looking for property in northern AZ. Some place with lots of sun for my Solar system to heat and cool my 28' RV I will be living in. Maybe we can all chip in and buy 100 acres. RV Solar City.

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

featheredsprite's picture

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Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.

I can think of at least three more or less progressive candidates who could have been recruited to replace Hanna; instead we have yet another stuffed blazer, mealy mouthed conservadem, Myers, for a Democratic candidate, in a district which voted heavily for Bernie in the primary. Myers, so far as I can determine, is not even campaigning--no town hall meetings--no press conferences--and I have heard nothing yet about debates. She seems to be making a sort of royal progress from parade to local festival to event where no one who is not at least a mayor or city council member gets to speak to her. There is NO schedule of appearances on her website; you have to get on an email list to know where she will be.

Have you thought about whom you might vote for for congress?

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Mary Bennett

Wink's picture

voting for Hanna. [sigh] Unfortunately I'm in NY-21 so we're stuck with "Beltway Elise" Stefanik. I'm working on returning our only progressive to Albany, Addie Russell, while working with many in the Syracuse area to save my sanity. Maybe we can get something going on in Utica! If people came out for Bernie in 22 there's still hope! Blow off 2016 and work for 2018. We really Really need to get a Thruway group from Buffalo to Albany! I'm so sick of living in red upstate. As K.O. would say, good luck!

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

The Republican nominee is one tea party Claudia Tenney, who will probably win , if only because of name recognition. She has signs up all over the district.

I will say for her that she does oppose TPP. I might even vote for her on that basis alone--and the fact that she would be a sure vote for impeachment should Mme. C. be elected--if Myers continues to give me absolutely no reason at all to vote for her. There is also a self funded rich guy, one Martin Babinec, who has nothing, zilch, nada to say to any issue other than "job creation in upstate NY". I don't know what that is all about.

A three way debate would be interesting and will likely not happen.

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Mary Bennett

riverlover's picture

It's bleak out there. So Hanna's retiring? My district has been moved around three or four time now, Dryden.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

Sigh. No chance I could ever afford to live there.

Is the Democrat even campaigning in 23? Can you, like, attend a town meeting and ask questions?

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Mary Bennett

mouselander's picture

Upton Sinclair used to call the Republican and Democratic parties two wings of the same predatory bird. Gore Vidal once said: "We have no political parties. We've never had much of them, I mean the Democrats, the Republicans. We have one party. We have the party of essentially corporate America. It has two right wings, one called Democratic, one called Republican."

Sinclair and Vidal both hit on an important truth: The areas of commonality between the two mainstream parties is far, far greater and more important in its impact on public policy than the relatively few and minor areas of difference. Both party hierarchies are fully committed to exploitative, predatory capitalism, and to an oligarchical form of government. Not to mention reckless and belligerent militarism, and the maintenance of an American empire. And of course the embrace of a militarized police force and the surveillance state.

With the Left effectively neutered, there has been nothing to prevent the political center of gravity from moving continually to the right, a process that will surely continue under a Hillary Clinton regime. Given that there is always some scary Republican bogeyman to compel "responsible" liberals to embrace the supposedly lesser evil Democrat, doesn't Reed's real thesis amount to promoting the idea that the current system is the best that can be achieved for the foreseeable future, so one had better learn to accept it and be grateful for the fact that the US has not yet descended into full-fledged fascism?

As Jill Stein has stated time and again, embracing the lesser evil now all but guarantees the greater evil will prevail in the not too distant future. And we have the evidence of this before our eyes. It's time - long past time, really - for those who draw their political inspiration and ideology more from Eugene Debs and Norman Thomas than from Ayn Rand and Milton Friedman to finally say "Enough." Enough of enabling one evil for the purpose of staving off another. Enough of pretending that the two dominant wings of American politics are not both attached to the same malignant creature.

The Left in America cannot and will not become strong unless and until it is able to see the Republican and Democratic parties not as the Greater Enemy and Lesser Enemy, but merely as the Enemy. Because such "leaders" as Hillary Clinton, Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Trump, Ryan, McConnell, et al, and those who enable them, are just as much the enemies of justice, of economic security, of freedom from foreign and domestic threats, and of a livable world and sustainable future as any Nazi storm trooper or bomb-toting Islamic terrorist. In fact, their capacity and willingness to do great evil probably exceeds either. We who oppose them will become strong once we start responding accordingly, not before.

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inactive account

earthling1's picture

That is if they don't come for us, first.
This is becoming a real fear.

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Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

Meteor Man's picture

I don't see how contemporary American or Global politics can be discussed without comparisons to Hitler.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

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"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn

TheOtherMaven's picture

just a debate rule that, in effect, said the first person to bring up H*tler or the N*zis forfeits the argument.

The actual "Godwin's Law" (more like an Observation) is that the longer a debate goes on, the more likely it is that references to H*tler or the N*zis will come up (and eventually it's a certainty).

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Godwin's law (or Godwin's rule of Nazi analogies)[1][2] is an Internet adage asserting that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazism or Hitler approaches 1"[2][3]—​​that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism.

Promulgated by American attorney and author Mike Godwin in 1990,[2] Godwin's law originally referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions.[4] It is now applied to any threaded online discussion, such as Internet forums, chat rooms, and comment threads, as well as to speeches, articles, and other rhetoric[5][6] where reductio ad Hitlerum occurs.

Godwin originally said he created it to see how fast a meme would spread. After "Godwin's Law" became so widely cited, he began citing loftier motives. Alternatively, he had loftier motives from the start, but didn't cop to them until Godwin's Law became "a thing."

The bit about losing an argument if you mention Hitler is something posters often claim to be Godwin's law, but it isn't.

Either way, treating Godwin's experiment in meme spreading as anything like a law that prohibits comparisons to Hitler or Nazis gives the right cover. So does claiming that you can't mention Hitler or Nazis unless someone is really killing 12 million people or it trivializes the deaths of the people he killed (exclusive of war deaths). Hitler didn't become Hitler after he had 12 million gassed. He was always the guy who, given power, would be capable of heinous things.

My "law:" If something is Hitler-like, do not hesitate to call it out, right along with calling out anyone who cites Godwin's "Law" in an effort to silence those calling out unacceptable or menacing behaviors.

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lotlizard's picture

nowadays, it’s Hitlers (or Hitlerettes) all the way down.

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Check this Power to the People talk by Ajamu Baraka:

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using a lot more words. Hillary is going to win, and she will join with the GOP to sell us up the last leg of the river.

Yes, we've all met woman like Hillary. What a great comment. They are her vagina brigade: Boxer, Pelosi, Stabenow, Granholm. DWS , et al

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

lotlizard's picture

13 Ways of Looking at the Deep State
by Chris Floyd

Deep State is a Terror State, Torture State,
Tyrant State — and it’s OK with that.

Deep State was formed to bodyguard elites,
keeping their dominance ever-refreshed.

Deep State doesn’t care what you advocate,
just as long as you toe the unsaid line.

Deep State is cold, lacks true affect;
hates only that which hinders it.

Deep State fences the range of opinion
like a cattle baron stringing barbed wire.

Deep State loves culture war, stokes all sides,
thrives on strife, the bitterer the better.

Deep State is not in full control; it just
knows which way it wants the world to roll.

Deep State kills the leaders it doesn’t like;
a lesson our leaders learned long ago.

Deep State doesn’t care if a whistle’s blown;
it already holds the reins of ‘reform.’

Deep State enjoys the horse-race hoopla,
voters vexed by the vetted and the duped.

Deep State’s wars have no other aim
than to keep our masters’ coffers in coin.

Deep State doesn’t mind blowing up the world,
if the world won’t do what Deep State wants.

Deep State is Red, Deep State is Blue;
Deep State don’t give a damn for you.

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I especially appreciate this part:

5) Reed has the wrong German election in mind. The one that mattered was the April 1932 Presidential election, in which von Hindenburg was the lesser evil who defeated Hitler. Nine months later, von Hindenburg appointed Hitler. That was the election in which the true meaning of lesser evil voting was exposed.

As for the failed KPD-SPD coalition, Reed can blame the KPD, and only the KPD, all he wants. The problem with such an argument, as Louis Proyect pointed out last month, was that the SPD worked through the Twenties to create the conditions for Hitler's triumph when it was in power. So they're to blame as well.

As far as our (snort) "news" media, somehow most of it ended up in 7 or fewer companies. These companies are so large that they can easily survive, even if their (snort) "news" outlets lose money, so long as they keep government regulation and corporate welfare on their side. So, they are free of having to be responsive to the general public and have instead become arms of government propaganda.

Once upon a time, our antitrust laws would have prevented such concentrations of any one industry--and if any industry should not have become a monopoly, it's news. However, those laws were changed to require D of J approval only for mergers involving certain dollar amounts, without regard to the type of industry involved. So, one could buy up, for example, one small bakery after another until one had a monopoly in bread. Or newspapers.

Surprise, surprise, D of J did not often put the kibosh on a proposed merger. Yadda, yadda, yadda (or, if you prefer, Eh! Voilà), we got what Teddy Roosevelt abhorred and Parker Brothers enjoyed, even in the First Amendment-protected news industry and even in health insurance. And now, health insurance companies threaten to drop out of Obamacare unless Obama approves more of their mergers.

Small world, so small, in fact, that it squeezes the 99%, much as the giant trash compactor in Star Wars threatened to squeeze Leia and her rescuers.

Voting for someone to the left of Hillary instead of joining Republicans in helping Hillary win by a landslide is what's actually important.

#JillnotHill

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Alligator Ed's picture

Social movements grow slowly until "critical mass" is reached. no one knows what the critical mass will be in American politics and I don't think anyone else does. Even the mightiest empires have cracked because of initially slowly growing opposition. FEED the opposition. My flavor of opposition is Green. As Teddy Roosevelt Jr. said on D-day when discovering his division had landed on the wrong beach: "Let's start the war here!" We need more TR Jrs. And I hope they are Green.

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At least I can vote my conscience or write somebody in...I'm not sure Stein and the Greens will even be on the ballot in Alabama...time either ran out or is fast running out to submit petitions...all I do know for sure is that I will never vote for the Neoliberal Warmonger....great piece!

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Hawkfish's picture

See the map here.

And don't worry about throwing the election - they are both bad choices. Choose the greater good!

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We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg

I live in al-05. Planning to brush up on my republican/tea bagger arguments to express my opposition to the TPP to mo brooks, Shelby & sessions.

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Alphalop's picture

Particularly now.

Why the hell do I care if it is safe for the democratic party for me to vote a certain way?

Actually, the more I think about it the more I come to the conclusion that the only "safe" vote is one that prevents Clinton from winning.

If it looks close in Florida I may indeed vote Trump, but if not it's Stein.

Burn the Democratic Party to the ground is my opinion, we don't need two right wing parties, particularly not one that lies and pretends it's the party of the people. (Well, corporations are people, so maybe they actually are.)

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

Cassiodorus's picture

Which is why they chose Trump over fifteen mainstream/ fundie candidates.

Frankly I think it's the Republican Party that is more likely to disintegrate. Their rank and file is less afraid of elite bullshit than the Democrat rank and file, which has been forced into silence because omigod Trump or somesuch crap.

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"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama

almost irrelevant for practical purposes. I do agree that that surviving entity will most likely be called the Democratic Party, but the name, too, is almost irrelevant for practical purposes.

Matters now, as you and I and many others have noted, are heading rapidly toward a surviving entity that includes most of what we now call the Democratic Party, along with many indies and those in Republican Party who think very much like the Clintons. That could not be more clear to anyone who has been awake while Hillary puts even reproductive rights on the table and some of the most prominent people in the Republican Party announce that they will be voting for Hillary--not even leaving the top of the ticket blank or voting for Libertarian Johnson/Republican Weld, though some have said those things--but flat out voting for Hillary.

The surviving entity, most likely called the Democratic Party, will have strength in numbers and be even further right than the Democratic Party has already become. Ergo, the biggest losers in this coalescence of Democrats, indies and Republican leaders will be the US left--unless the left somehow finds a way, ASAP, to unite and mobilize and create new paradigms and new methods.

While I do think it's important to unite and help strengthen one political party, that is not going to be anywhere near enough. We have to shake loose of the paradigm of a party or a messiah du jour. Instead, we have to learn--and teach other-- fast to form alliances around issues like clean water, healthy air, living wage, perpetual war, etc.

These alliances will need to include, along with the left, those who are like-minded on a given issue from among unions (leadership, hopefully, but members definitely) and those who still consider themselves unconditional Democrats, along with indies and Republicans. Without unity, resolve, work and alliances, I don't see a rosy future for the left.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

it's important to clarify that the "strength in numbers" they have will not be from the populace. Your analysis makes it sound like they're getting majorities of rank-and-file voters who "think like Clinton" by uniting the right-wing Democrat with the "moderate" Republican side of things. But they aren't. To the extent that they're getting support from rank-and-file, it's largely by denying them choices and scaring them. There's no large coalition out there arrayed behind Clinton ideas (or Bush ideas, which is what we called them a few years ago.) I'm not even sure there's a large coalition out there arrayed behind "OMG I'M SO TERRIFIED OF TRUMP I MUST VOTE FOR HILLARY TO SAVE US ALL!"

While it's distressing how many people accept the choices they're given, there's a whole shitload of people who are refusing to participate in any of it. Not just the usual suspects (unregistered folks), either. Where I am, the people have largely turned their backs to all the campaigns for federal office. In the five-county area surrounding me, I have seen 1)a tiny sprinkling of defiant Bernie signs, 2)a larger but still small sprinkling of Trump signs, and 3)one Hillary sign. One.

I also keep track of bumper stickers, though that's harder. Bernie stickers and Trump stickers in roughly equal numbers; I've seen 4 Hillary stickers. Total.

I am in Alachua County, the permanently blue spot in North Central Florida. Ordinarily, there'd be a shitload of Democratic signs here. Instead, it's as if most people have simply turned off the presidential election in their minds. Actually, it's like they've excised federal elections from their minds (I see no signs for Grayson or his opponent either. Anywhere. There's one sign that went up yesterday for Ted Yoho.)

Interestingly, this doesn't mean people aren't interested in politics around here: there's a very spirited battle going on for Sheriff. The pattern holds in the surrounding counties: city council, county council, supervisor of elections, school board, sheriff--there's lots of signs up for those, both in Alachua county and the surrounding counties. There's also a couple of passionate fights over state legislature, which shocks me, because who the hell would want to work in Tallahassee? (That's an insult to the legislature, btw, not to the town, which is rather lovely if seriously mistaken in its football loyalties.)

People have clearly decided that they have no power over anything to do with DC, and that DC is going to supply nothing of interest or use to their lives. They still believe in local government, and there's a few who still think state government is worth paying attention to.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

by a landslide, even if the results are not fixed. However, my post was not about only the 2016 Presidential election, any more than the Republican Party was only about electing Lincoln. I am talking about a major realignment that is likely to last a long time, especially if the left does not get its sh*t together fast. I think it's been planned for a long time, too. IMO, the No Labels think tank is an example, as is all the cosiness between the Clintons and the Bushes. Obama, too.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/14/obama-taps-bush-clinton-fo...

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

As for "a landslide," a landslide of what percentage of population? of what percentage of electorate?

And, as you point out, it's been proven that we actually can't know what the vote totals are.

I will be surprised, though not mightily, if she gets a big turnout that gives her the landslide win she will of course get, whether by hook (scaring people into voting for her) or by crook (fixing the results). I'm guessing there will be a landslide win...of a really low turnout of voters.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

victory for the winner of any election. "Landslide" generally refers to the percentage of people who actually got themselves to the polls and voted for President, except that as to a President, it refers to votes of electors, so it's really the number of states. Even as to the popular vote, though, I've never heard a healthy victory announced on election night with the qualification that turn out was low. That's one of the reasons I don't agree with the "let's not vote at all" strategy.

Also, as I previous posted, my original post had very little to do with Hillary or the 2016 election.
http://caucus99percent.com/comment/159437#comment-159437

I truly do not want to focus on 2016. I think a Hillary victory is in the bag and the left have much, much bigger fish to fry.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

and even run one.

What I'm talking about is the question of a popular mandate. There isn't one.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

of being a blue dot, you described what's going on in Cole County MO to a t.

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Solidarity forever

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

by and large, are not the ones being stupid at this juncture. They pretty much know what's going on.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

There's nothing safe about electing Hillary--or appointing her, or whatever it is we're doing. Kneeling down?

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

... a fairly conservative area, voted for Bernie. Like Wisconsin, almost every county voted for Bernie, except the populated urban centers. Michigan will be interesting, as republicans control much of the state legislature, the governor's office, and here at home, if you vote Dem in the primaries, or local elections, there are no candidates...the R ballot will have three or four for each office, but running as a democrat pretty much assures defeat. That said, I have some real hope that term limited tea partiers, will be replaced by some pretty good dems, in state, and federal legislative offices. Stabenaw, one of HRC's "vagina brigade" is a problem, and will never be voted out as long as she chooses to run.

All that said, I have been chastised by Hill Bots about how dangerous a Green Party vote, or Bernie write in will be. They are very serious, and righteously upset to hear of a vote of conscience.

#NeverHillary

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though it is carefully reasoned and erudite, seems to be based largely on fear of a Trump presidency - even though the chances of Trump winning are extremely low. But even if by some outside chance Trump were to win, he would not likely be able to get much of anything truly disastrous done. He has too few powerful allies and far too many powerful enemies, for him to be effective.

On the other hand, HRC and her unholy alliance of neocon warmongers and international banksters would indeed be able to, and would in fact be very likely to lead the USA into an unending procession of foreign wars. The political and financial elites that she has marshalled to her cause comprise a far more dangerous and potent force than anything Trump would have at his disposal.

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native

SnappleBC's picture

The problem, then, is not that we don't vote for lesser-evil candidates even though "It's Important." The problem is that we fail to exist as a political entity because we don't fight at all.

That about sums up my thinking and it's why I changed to independent in 2012. I decided to exist as a political entitity.

Another thing I wonder at his the author's insistence on building broad coalitions. I agree. But let's take a look at DKOS (no seriously). Who am I supposed to build a coalition with there and on what basis? The only thing I can really think of is the non-monetized social wedges and frankly, I've delegated those issues to re-arranged deck chairs on the titanic.

I do want to build a broad coalition. I just want to do it with people who even remotely overlap with my interests on the most pressing problems of our day.

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A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard