Neo-Liberal Centrists Cant Win This Fight
They had their chance and royally blew it.
- Continuing foreign wars.
- A half arsed attempt at universal health care.
- Increasing income inequality.
- Accompanied with the stench of bipartisan selling out when given the chance to change.
Watching the Pussy Grabber's inauguration show with its American Exceptionalism on steroids, I expect the mushy centre [on both sides] to fold as per usual.
The question is also what did the centrist neo-liberals propose? More of the same. Now what are they proposing? More of the bloody same. The confirmation process for Trump's picks promises to be a collective fold across the board. It's going to be hilarious when he picks his first SCOTUS candidate, after all "Mad Dog" passed confirmation with a senate vote of 98-1, hahahahaha.
The Republicans in a vast majority of the States have basically free reign to impose their hate filled agenda, as the song goes "B-B-baby, you aint seen nothing yet" now that they control DC as well. The Democrats basically abandoned fly over country for the last 20 years, promises of "we are with you" disappeared without trace once they got their wish of the Presidency. They forgot that political parties are nourished from the ground up and not from the corporatist elite on down, hopefully Trump is making the same mistake.
The ACA will be politically easy for the Republicans to replace/trash because the Democrats refused to make it something worth keeping, it will be dropped on the States to do what is necessary. Some Democrats recent votes against buying properly priced drugs away from the BigPharma pushers in the US said it all really, mushy, pathetic even.
The Democrats failed to push ahead and become the world leader in renewable energy and climate change, it was hardly even mentioned during the campaign. I suppose trying to halt the rape and pillage of our biosphere would have upset some of their sponsors.
After the banking crisis they gave the money to the banks after Clinton had allowed them to basically "fuck the system", the controls now in place to monitor trading practices are farcical. Socialism for the uber-wealthy, scraps [if any] for the rest, not a way to inspire confidence that you are indeed "with us".
The illegal wars continued and expanded, then the blame games started when someone else dared to shit on our parade, Russians! Torturers walk free along our streets the reality ignored. War crimes continued, murder by drone increased, who needs Gitmo when you can just kill and avoid the messy legal stuff. Gitmo is still there for some strange inexplicable reason.
Democrats enabled further and expanded greatly the Surveillance State, they continue to support such unnecessary legislation as the "Patriot Act" and its hangers on. Forget our objections after 9-11 that they may well come to regret them under some spiteful President/Administration in the future. You have to fight this type of stuff right from the get go and never shut up until they are repealed. Yeah, but the President seems so nice and I don't do anything wrong, until that all bloody changes that is.
So busy with new "free trade deals" such as the TTP and TTIP at the behest of the owners they forgot just how unpopular they were where manufacturing still took place. They abandoned Unions so long ago its hard to remember, they even squabbled over the living wage and how it would hurt their sponsors. They hugged the richest closely to fund their next campaign whilst ignoring what they really should have stood for. When they had a candidate that reminded them, they manned the torpedoes, because succession/right/her time/owners needs or something or other.
Bipartisanship died but should have been put out of its misery when G W Bush won the Presidency. The neo-liberal centrists failed across the board only vast amounts of money kept the boat afloat until this year, neo-liberalism will be replaced by full blown aggressive rapacious capitalism, America first and if you don't like it, see our MIC. The British are in full blown denial, they are not first in the queue for Brexit trade deals, America is and ready to screw you. Putin is going along with it in the short term as it could be pretty funny, but I doubt that will last long even if it bolsters his control over Russia itself.
Now the left has to concentrate on how to win back the States in fly over territory and not take refuge on the coasts if that means organizing another party so be it. The Democrats in congress are by and large mush and more than willing to organise themselves to give the Republicans what they want, ten here, ten there to cross party lines as per usual. Then no doubt they will explain to us that it was all that we could do, forgetting how the Republicans have gained so much power over the last ten years both in DC and the States.
You have to fight 24/7 and not cede and inch, personally I believe that the leadership of the Democratic Party couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag and they don't want to, their lacklustre damp squib of a campaign proved just that. Time to replace or move on or both.
PS
Thankfully this nasty flu is nearly done, my cough was a bit like hacking up a Trump. Ick.
Comments
Then the left needs one or a very few unifying
good ideas around which to rebuild.
What are those one or two or three ideas?
I keep looking around the "leftist" blogs and really don't see any good, largely appealing, succinct good ideas around which "the left" can unify and sell to a larger public.
Maybe I'm missing it?
Single Payer Health Care: Ok, keep pushing, it's a good idea, but has been around a long time.
Government funded higher education: Great idea. But then the left better understand how government funded stuff gets paid for, or it will ultimately fail under the barrage of the nonsense question of: "How will the government pay for it?"
So, that means being able to show that the government pays for stuff by creating dollars out of thin air. Always.
And when it creates dollars out of thin air to fund stuff, it funds our ability to pay tax.
Once folks understand that the government funds our ability to pay tax when it spends, then lots of other stupid economic policy shit can get addressed, like our tax policy.
And, crucially, our less than full employment policy.
If folks understood that government follows a less than full employment policy, they'd be pissed. And yes, Trump too will be forced to follow a less than full employment policy because he doesn't control The Fed, which controls interest rate policy, and who increases interest rates when we seem to be approaching full employment. So, if Trump wants full employment he'll need to do 1 of 2 things: Have Congress enact a Jobs Guarantee Policy or force the private sector to expand hiring even as the cost of borrowing money to do so increases.
Which leads me to: The logic of having the government fund stuff comes from understanding that the federal government issues our national currency to fund the private sector our net incomes, out of which we pay tax, pay off our private bank debts, buy foreign produced stuff, and record a net income in our private ledgers.
And once we get our flow of funds right side up: The federal government does not "tax and spend", it spends and taxes, then we can demand nice stuff, including a Jobs Guarantee Program.
An idea that I think lots of folks would support if they understood that there are only 2 choices the government can make: Having a less than full employment program or having a full employment program.
I think most would support the latter over the former - if they understood what was going on.
The left needs to understand what's going on so they can defend their good ideas.
@katie The payment talking point
The payment talking point is easy to deal with, since 2008. The key is to not get too wonky, because if you do, the legacy media will spin you as being evasive and probably elitist too.
A simple "tax the rich" with some specifics on who you're referring to, would do, or you can point out that we just magicked 16 trillion dollars out of our ass to save the very bankers who wrecked their own businesses and our economy to boot--so it shouldn't be too hard to find enough money to educate our kids.
We're not lacking in ideas. We're somewhat lacking in style and presentation, perhaps, and a bit lacking in focus (IOW, we have too many ideas, the much-maligned list of issues that apparently is political kryptonite in this country). But the real problem is that we have no power, and no idea how to get any, so our ideas are worth jack and shit.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal "Tax the rich" isn't
"Tax the rich" isn't great slogan in my opinion.
And I'm more addressing those who write and read, and push or develop good ideas, or read them.
We have 8 years to do so.
@katie It worked fine for
It worked fine for Bernie.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal That's why he
That's why he garnered enough support to swamp the elections and is now our President.
No.
His message got hung up on fears of ruining the wealthy upon whom we depend for our jobs.
That's why we need to provide greater employment security, not just fixes to the fact that we follow a less than full employment policy.
Or, as Adam Smith said: Free markets begin with the freedom to enter into a labor contract - or not.
Thus the government has a responsibility to create the conditions of free trade, including providing an alternative to selling ones' labor - that's wage slavery, not free trade.
A Jobs Guarantee provides that alternative to being a wage slave. And even free traders should support it : )
@katie No, that's not
No, that's not what happened. He did not have a problem with his ideas and their presentation that brought down his campaign. What brought down his campaign was voter suppression, election fraud, and a complicit legacy press that has the unofficial power to declare winners. Also a corrupt legal system that has no interest in ensuring we have accurate and fair elections.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal I agree.
I agree.
But the reality is: We'll need enough voters to swamp all that you listed.
Is it possible?
Maybe not.
@katie See my
See my comment to Cass below; we need to have our own "Goldwater moment" which is, IMO, long overdue. Admit this shit ain't working; retreat together with like-minded folks; analyze both ourselves and our enemies; formulate a strategy; develop and deepen our friendships and connections, with an eye to creating multiple small communities across the country; network those groups together using the internet.
IMO, these steps are a prerequisite to anything else useful we might do.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Deleted
Posted wrong place.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Was that President Sanders' inauguration?
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Power concedes nothing without a demand --
but if they're demanding to be sold snake oil for eight years in a row, then snake oil is what power will concede. Well I have an idea of how to get some power:
http://caucus99percent.com/content/informal-report-new-party-idea
But "third parties," they say, "are a waste of time," after having wasted thirty years.
"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama
@Cassiodorus I was absolutely on
I was absolutely on board with this until Stein started engaging in her pro-Hillary folderol. Then I reflected that a power like the Clinton/Bush political machine is just as capable of compromising a Green politician as a Democrat.
If we have a new political party, we are going to have to figure out a way to deal with this. Actually, if we have any form of political organization we will have to figure out a way to deal with it. Otherwise, the establishment will continue to pick off our leaders when it's convenient to them to do so, and we will be continually hamstrung.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
We can hardly do worse --
than what we're doing now.
"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama
@Cassiodorus I'm in favor of
I'm in favor of analyzing our enemies' (or enemy's, it's hard to tell) strategies, our own resources, strengths, and weaknesses, our enemy's strengths and weaknesses, and developing our strategy based on that analysis.
I'm also in favor of doing this work primarily offline, face-to-face, in multiple locations around the country. We can then implement the strategies we create online, okf course.
I'm also in favor of deepening the friendships we have developed here through in-person meetups and hopefully building multiple small local communities out of same.
I think these steps are necessary to doing anything at all.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
How about it C99%?
Anyone here want to meet up in Claremont, California?
"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama
@Cassiodorus If it comes
If it comes to it, I will myself travel to various C99ers around the country, but I have to free up money first to be able to do that.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Cassiodorus And that's
And that's assuming people want me to come of course (LOL!)
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
$16T of "National Debt" to Bankroll Banksters
- Perhaps we should push on the Debt is money angle.
Also, I think we should hit on the fact that the Banksters made off with all of that national debt.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
I believe that job creation, like FDR did,
would be a huge part of the equation. Workers should also be paid much, much more of the wealth they create.
I believe we need to push for salary increases for all workers (except upper levels of management). If earnings had kept up with production over the years, I don't think people or the government would be in the weak financial position they (or we) are in. Once people start receiving the value of what they produce, similar to what they used to receive, GDP will grow, there will be more consumption, and more taxes will be available for spending on infrastructure, health, education, etc.
dfarrah
@dfarrah A Jobs Guarantee
A Jobs Guarantee Program would set the minimum wage. Whatever the government decides to pay is what the minimum wage will be.
My father worked for FDR's 'CCC' , Civilian Conservation Corps
and a few years before his death he was interviewed by a guy writing a book about the CCC.It could've been a lot better of an interview had it happened a few years earlier, but I have the transcript and despite his health problems he was able to answer most questions.
My father grew up on a farm in Texas. with eleven other brothers and sisters and when the interviewer asked why he joined up with the CCC he said "well I'd heard about it, but I had figured, well it couldn't be harder than farming (chuckle)". The pay was $21.00 a month and he was sent to Arizona (Flagstaff) where he said it was just like the work on the farm, putting up fences, putting in culverts and one time their job was cleaning up after a big plane crash (some gruesome stuff apparently).
It was work camps around the Country (his first supervisors had come down from a camp in Kanab Utah), they had a mess tent and a doctor in each camp, while basically building America's infrastructure.
It pumped up the value and the economic situation of towns across the Country, when the interviewer asked were there any problems with the 'locals' when the guys would have a pass and go to town, my father said "No! they loved us coming and spending our money in their towns". Apparently in some small towns the young unemployed men were hearing about the CCC for the first time and they wanted to join.
We need to have work programs like those of FDR,and not some "public/private" venture, but solely federally funded otherwise every single part of this Country will belong to (a very few) private interests, and we must create a nationwide green grid, not the fossil fuel building spree that is happening all across the Country.
How about democracy?
@Big Al That's one of those
That's one of those ideas that means nothing without implementation, and there can be no implementation without power. And we don't have any.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@katie As Can't said, just keep
As Can't said, just keep it simple. We need a working class party with a working class agenda. We need to reject the influence and control that billionaires and corporations offer. It isn't being done now, because nearly every party and political official in DC is a prostitute, and they won't turn on their benefactors.
Bernie's campaign showed us that we can raise money without the oligarchs, and that means that we don't have to take their phone calls.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
You're right,
the gov't can buy any damn thing it wants by "creating" the money to pay for it literally out of thin air - by snapping a finger, simply clicking a mouse. Repubs fire back that "somebody has to pay for it!" - and somebody in fact eventually does. But, the bull$h!t from Repubs that "America broke, we don't have the money" is just that. America's money supply is limited only by the eventual ability to pay it back. Backed by 250 Million taxpayers. Trump's proposed $1 Trillion Job Creating bill will cost every taxpayer $33 /mo. Now, 47 Percenters will more likely pay a more affordable $16 a mo., while Middle Classers likely pay $50 /mo., and the Ubers and Filths pay the rest, at $100 /mo. (or whatever). What irks Repubs is, "The rich are paying for most of it, while the poor aren't paying dick." Not fair!, they beller as all those programs benefit the poor. Which is horse$h!t, of course, but rank & file Repubs (and too many Dems) eat it up from the likes of el Rushbo, Vanity, et al.
Point being, of course, is that we Dems Could (and should) have any damn program we want. And would, except for a rank & file that drinks the Repub Kool Aid, too timid to take on the Repub bullies. And the bullies know it. Is why they continue to win.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
bing! Exactly right. n/t
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
I'll just keep dropping in this good interview Chris Hedges
did on grass roots organizing, with someone who has done it for a lifetime.
It seems like a good tactical approach to the problems of how to coalesce the rather large but amorphous group(s) on the real left or in the up/down orientation the bottom oh let's say 90%.
[video:https://youtu.be/wodOZ-VZCUE?list=PLagVUKF7CUTRiG64CklL1AN0mbmNaETfp]
You may choose to look the other way, but you can never say again you did not know. ~ William Wiberforce
If you can donate, please! POP Money is available for bank-to-bank transfers. Email JtC to make a monthly donation.
What fight?
The only fight they're trying to win is against us.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal Indeed
Indeed
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal The point is: There
The point is: There aren't many "us" to fight against.
That might have something to do with the lack of good ideas that "us" have.
@katie There are many of us,
There are many of us, and we have no lack of ideas.
It's so easy to forget:
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
The Democrats are the enrmy
There's no point in hoping they want anything that would benefit us, much less that they would fight for it. They've been very clear in that, though it's hard for many of us to face that.
@Sunspots This is the wallpaper
This is the wallpaper on my desktop since the "election:"
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I think a distiction should be made
between Democratic voters and the Democratic Party. The startling and unprecedented successes of Bernie's campaign showed that there is enormous public enthusiasm for policies that the Party establishment deems to be too "radical". We need to find a way to re-ignite the fiery spirit that was so clearly evident at Sanders' rallies. This will only be possible by standing firmly in opposition to the Party establishment - much as Sanders himself once did. As soon as Sanders capitulated to the PTB, that's when the wind went out of all our sails. But his millions of supporters still exist, and a great many of them are still nominally "Democrats".
native
Too bad the Democratic Establishment controls the vote counts
The silly voters who think they're Democrats have nothing to say about what the Party does or says.
*
You Want Three Ideas to Sell?
Affordable healthcare via single payer paid for by cost savings.
Better paying jobs via higher minimum wage paid for by increased disposable income.
Secure retirement via expanded Social Security paid for by removing the wage cap.
The squishy wishy centrist coproparate conservadems will never go for these ideas because their masters won't allow it so they will have to be removed.
The real SparkyGump has passed. It was an honor being your human.
@SparkyGump Because the government
Because the government "taxes and spends" by "stealing other peoples' money because it has no money of it's own" - to quote Maggie Thatcher.
The left needs to stop falling into Maggie's trap.
The left needs to realize that the dollars they use to pay tax comes from government spending.
1) The federal government issues our currency by spending dollars into the private sector. It does so by entering numbers on a computer key board to mark up private bank accounts. It can never run out of key strokes. Dollars are in potential infinite supply.
2) Now the private sector has dollars.
3) Now the private sector can use some of those dollars to pay tax.
Maggie Thatcher was wrong, monetarily sovereign governments DO have their own money, they don't need to tax (steal) money from you.
Currency users never fund the sovereign currency issuer.
As long as the left continues to get its' flow of funds upside down, they will fall prey to the deficit hawks in both their own coalition and to the Republicans.
As Chairman of The Fed back in 1946 said: "Taxes for Revenue are Obsolete":
http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2010/04/fed-chairman-ruml-got-it-righ...
Ex Treasury official and current banker, Frank Newman: "How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the National Debt":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae7PO-j7TIc&t=14s
@katie You're right, but
You're right, but politically speaking, that's a hard sell without using the bailout. Use the bailout as an example. They literally magicked money out of their butts to bail out their rich friends, so obviously it's possible.
Though I'll also say that, obnoxiously enough, the government ISN'T really doing that, even though it could--instead, for some reason, they're borrowing money from the banks first instead of simply issuing currency as the sovereign nation they supposedly represent. Then somehow there's some debt that is created and the government "owes" the banks, for fuck's sakes. It all looks like a scam to me.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal No. That's not at
No. That's not at all how it works.
The dollars used to invest in treasury bonds comes from government spending.
The government "borrows" it's own dollars back.
Just as it taxes its' own dollars back.
Treasury bonds are just a savings account at our central bank, they do not fund the government in any way.
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal Yes, many folks
Yes, many folks think we should simply stop issuing treasury bonds, as they just pay interest to those who can afford to invest in them, and do not fund the government.
I'll try to remember to find a good article later today on how this works that isn't mind numbingly "wonky".
@katie I don't mind the
I don't mind the wonkiness--go for it! This forum is an excellent place to be wonky. The campaign trail with its 30-second sound bytes is, very unfortunately, not. That's one of the many things wrong with our system.
So please don't take my comment as a criticism of how you're talking here--the more wonkiness here the better, IMO.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal Ok, be on the
Ok, be on the look out for something coming in a few hours.
Please Do... There Is a Simple and Elegant Metaphor or
Explanation of this, I'm sure of it, .
My job is to get to the crux of counter-intuitive, nearly oxymoronic practical, metaphorical, and theoretical concepts to deliver a message that can be turned into confident, self expressive and successful action.
Discussing behavior modifications are riddled nearly oxymoronic key concepts -- things like "money=debt". There are very delicate modifiers and perspectives that are required to make sense of behavior mod.
I have been messing around with the frames and concepts I've picked up from your work on dKos and here over the last few years. I've struggled mightily to communicate these ideas to people I interact with. It's quite similar to trying to describe a technique before I have a common thread, a frame of perspective, or some kind of metaphorical hook to hang it all on.
Once the frame is right, it becomes impossible to see anything else but the correct answer. Your previous understanding is almost embarrassing.
There is a caveat, or additional requirement to popping a previous reality with a powerful reframe in dog training: it requires showing it. And this is completely key, IMO.
You can get heads nodding all day long, and people buying into the idea completely, but nearly all those people think or say,"... not with my dog..." or "... yea, but my dog is special..." Without a clear active demonstration, the conversation is always a complete fail.
So, when this metaphor comes out, and it will given the complete absurdity of reality, it will have to be accompanied by a step by step, real time narrative that tells the story and predicts unforeseen pitfalls. We will also require a chorus of positive illustrations within that narrative that demonstrate and prove the veracity of the suggested technique.
Hope this makes sense...
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
This sounds solid
- and the animal training metaphor example is undeniable.
Feels as if enormous counterefforts to remove all traction and leverage have been put in place. The actions of veterans traveling to the No DAPL site were crucial - how can that be matched?
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal We have 8 years to
We have 8 years to sell the way our monetary system works in reality.
Most people already both know and don't know that we "just print money".
Now they just need to get into the habit of knowing what they already know.
I've been blogging about our monetary system for about 6 years now. It's much easier to explain now than when I first started because it's not as alien to people anymore.
Corporate Sponsored Public Policy Is the Same
- Back in the early 00s, talking about Big Corporate & the Oligarchs running the show was like pissing into the wind.
Over the last 10 years, it is so completely obvious that Big Corporate & the Oligarchs are running the show that America elected one to try to protect herself from their abuse. Laughably insane, as much history proves to be in hindsight, but that's neither here nor there.
My point is that talking about corporate sponsorship of public policy is much, much easier. Partly because I've honed some frames and argument but I'm pretty sure that it is the population starting to believe their lying eyes.
This is happening on the macroeconomic front as well. I'm hopeful that a sea change is in our near future.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
Tax code is used to fine tune the economy
Taxes are is not stolen money. Sovereign money is not a possession (hell it is not even a thing) you possess. The reification of money is a trap!!! Don't buy into the fraudulent narrative. Take control of the conversation, reacting to the lies of the classical economists is a monumental waste of time.
If we are ever to make progress we have got to stop tilting at the windmills.
@PriceRip "Stealing money
"Stealing money from you" - I'm quoting how other people think.
Sorry for the error.
@PriceRip Actually,
Actually, "Taxes are used to fine tune the economy" is a great way to express the role of taxes in a country that creates its' own currency.
I say that "all the time"
I am a particle physicist, so economists can conveniently say I don't know anything about economics and how money flows. Funny, how that "compartmentalization thing" works in academic institutions, sometimes.
@katie Actually taxes
Actually taxes take money out of the economy and thus prevent inflation. If the government never taxed, the money in circulation would expand exponentially like the Weimar Mark.. But demanding that budgets be balanced annually is just putting us in an economic straight-jacket. But over some long period (8 year economic cycle? a generation?) budgets have to be balanced or inflation is the result. Prices today are about ten times what they were when I was a young man. Is that too much inflation? I dunno. Ask Robert Reich.
To recapitulate, spend whatever is required for full employment, tax whatever is needed to control inflation. The Fed's method of controlling inflation by raising interest rates until the economy crashes is the wrong way. Do you remember the 1970's? I do.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
You missed an important point !
While this is true with respect to the total amount of money removed.
The pattern of removal is as important if not more important. Tax code should be more about how this "obligation" is distributed than about the total amount. This is the engineering that creates a just system.
I agree!
I was answering the question of why we have taxes at all/ why doesn't the government just print money instead of having taxes.
A better question is "Why does the government pay interest on bonds instead of just printing the money?"
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Money is an illusion
Ultimately, tt has no value beyond the faith that has imbued to it. Acceptors of money have faith that in a moment after the transaction, it will remain to be of value.
Moving beyond employer-employee, customer-merchant relationship is what is needed. Money only bemefits those that command it. Command your own destiny, by reducing dependence on an illusion.
Aside: taxes paid are like membership fees, when legislators complain the rich are over-burdened, they are arguing that the 1%ers are paying too much to maintain their standing. That is a fundamental part of the social contract, if they want to leave the contract, they will have to live in isolation: As all parasites to humanity need to be isolated. There will be a greater price to pay for them to re-enter the social contract.
Further aside: Any fully-functional government would want their constituens to be, at miunimum, free from need. A mature, fully-functional government would be partnering with the People they Serve to pursuit the People's wants.
Fighting for democratic principles,... well, since forever
Classic Sting Operation
is a complicated confidence scheme planned and executed by several grifters and shills. And, the term "confidence" is related to this:
Our motivations are the only things that separates us from the grifters and shills. And, on the national stage I think I know which are the latter. The tragedy is that it is not so clear which non-grifters and non-shills are guided by the motives addressed in your other points to actually participate in creating a fair and equitable society.
Your Money is National Debt
Is this a true statement?
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
@k9disc @k9disc - How
- How about tying per capita median income to National Debt?
Is that a valuable comparison?
Because if I'm reading the "hyper-complex" economist-speak of reality correctly, money is debt. We've doubled our population in the last generation (1950-2017) and we've increased our median income.
So here's the question:
Where did that money for 150 million Americans come from? How would we get that money without increasing the national debt?
Maybe we need to start saying that if you want to eliminate the national debt you are going to make money scarce.
That is a correct reading, is it not?
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
National Debt
Many years ago I bought a US Savings Bond for the first time. As a walked out of the bank, I was struck with a flash of insight: I had just "payed" some "dollars" for a promissory note for a return of a larger number of "dollars" in the future. I held a part of the "National Debt" in my hands.
So, no the money issued to keep the economy running is not part of the national debt. Graphically, the National Debt is a sequestered pocket that is not directly connected to the source of money (government spending) or to the sink of money (federal taxes).
Sorry, I have removed all my graphs and such from TOP, and Reddit. I have not gotten organized to the point of pointing to the appropriate segment, so the best I can do at this time is point you to a early talk by Stephanie Kelton.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BYhoMILwR4]
@1:30 Is What I'm Talking About
Seems like she said it right there at 1:30.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
Here is a graphic I produced . . .
based upon another MMT graphic. The source of money is government spending. The sink of money is federal taxes. All other actors are circles on the stage. Every kind of economic activity can be represented by exchanges amongst the actors on the stage.
Is It Fair To Say That National Debt is Money in Circulation?
- Just curious to see if there's a simple expression to chip away at the conventional wisdom...
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
@SparkyGump Bernie had plenty of
Bernie had plenty of ideas, and it went over like hotcakes. His ideas all emerged from two related values: fairness and democracy. Fairness, because we've got rigged politics and a rigged economy, and those constitute rigged games, which are not fair (no matter what you think of the games themselves--which, politically speaking, allows for a whole range of people, from reformists to radicals, to agree. Hell, it even allows for some right-wing people to agree. That is smart politics.) Democracy, because when a small percentage of the population essentially buys the government and denies people representation, that is against everything that America has always said it is supposed to be--and basically makes the whole idea of government essentially moot. The Fortune 500 and the bankers might as well get together once a month and issue a memorandum through one legacy media company, instructing the people on what changes are going to be made in their lives this month. Aside from the military, there's literally no reason to have all that infrastructure and bureaucracy in DC now--because the decisions, for the most part, are not being made inside government anyway. With the exception of the military, in which term I include the alphabet soup agencies of spying and secret police.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal And it got hung up on
And it got hung up on the question: "How are you going to pay for it?"
And shouts of: "Nothing is Free!"
And then everything became a battle of the maths to "balance the budget".
Now's the time to create a slogan that matches reality and educate folks about the fact that the government doesn't rely upon the wealthy, and the wealthy don't support the unworthy poors.
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal Also, both FDR (2nd
Also, both FDR (2nd Bill of Rights) and MLK supported a guaranteed jobs program, and we should too for deeper structural reasons than either single payer or government funded higher education.
MLK's "March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom" - which has been shortened to "March on Washington" - for some reason:
http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2013/08/honoring-dr-kings-call-for-a-...
@katie Katie, I have no
Katie, I have no problem with adding ideas like guaranteed jobs, or even guaranteed income, to the mix. And yes, if we ran candidates on those sorts of issues, they would have to be well prepared to meet the challenge of "How ya gonna pay for it? How? How? You spendthrift!"
But talk about putting the cart before the horse. We don't have a political system that will allow for candidates we like to win. It doesn't matter which ideas they emphasize, or how they explain them. The system as it stands simply will not allow candidates with left-wing ideas to win. It also won't allow genuine right-wing populists to win (Trump, in my opinion, is only playing a role; I don't think he gives two shits about the little guy. I think, I hope, that his desire not to have a nuclear war is genuine, but even that crumbles a bit under pressure, as Big Al has described on this site.)
The Sanders campaign was not wrecked because he didn't have popular ideas, or because those ideas were unfairly or badly represented and people believed the spin. I'm not saying he did a perfect job all the time--but even the occasional speed bump like the interview with the NY Daily News didn't derail his campaign. Even the deliberate media blackout of his campaign didn't do more than slow it. His campaign was ultimately derailed by persistent, endemic voter suppression and fraud.
What happened right before Sanders ended his campaign and threw his support to Hillary? Poor representation of his ideas? A massive gaffe? An incredibly unpopular idea that led to people deserting his campaign? No, a phone call from Barack Obama, and a subsequent series of visits to Obama, Biden, and Harry Reid. After which, everything went to hell. The system reined him in. You could practically see the leash.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
IRV - Instant Runoff Voting Is a Solid, Core Issue...
- Instant Runoff Voting, I've long thought, is the silver bullet for taking on and beating corporate sponsored public policy.
The only reason the Oligarchs can so effectively game the system is that we have a binary, this or that, choice, which is the hallmark of manipulative interactions. Any time someone gives you a this or that choice you are being manipulated -- the end.
Our binary system means that there's a 50/50 chance -- that's no risk at all. There are two, completely related variables.
Drop 60% on your favorite, throw 40% at the acceptable and call it a day. Run an ad targeting this demographic that the favorite doesn't care about that puts the demograpich at odds with the unacceptable, and call it a win win. Manipulating our politicians must be like shooting fish in a barrel, seriously.
But what if there were 8 candidates with a shot? How do you game that many variables? And then re-game them after candidates are eliminated. IRV provides an end run around corporate sponsored public policy.
IRV is a completely American thing too. It's not demographically biased. Everyone wants to vote their conscience. Many, many Republicans are, and have been, unhappy with their choices over the last few decades; same with Democrats and Independents.
IRV is a great lead issue for any New Party that speaks to popular consent, self governance, and the will of the People.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
@k9disc Any someone gives
Any someone gives you a this or that choice you are being manipulated -- the end.
Well put.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Three objections
1. Single payer will be fought tooth and nail with lurid stories of Englishmen waiting in agony for months to have an operation and death panels.
2. Job guarantees will be countered with stories of make work jobs and paying people who don't really want to work.
3. SOCIAL SECURITY IS GOING BROKE! (pepeat ad nausem)
BTW the cap won't do it. A lousy 1% more from worker and employer would. But workers DO want "free stuff".
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
@The Voice In the Wilderness Get rid of FICA and
Get rid of FICA and just have the government fund SS directly, since taxes don't fund the currency issuer anyway. Why pretend otherwise?
And why are we taxing labor and industry, rather than unearned incomes?
Why FICA?
Politics mostly. You propose to make SS a welfare program, hence unearned. People don't like to feel like beggars. They like to feel that they are paying into an annuity system. It DOES come out the same in the end, but the optics are all important. Many blue collar workers think raising the cap without giving additional benefits to the rich is theft. They are (mostly) honest folk and don't want to feel like thieves. Or beggars. If this country had decent economic education it would be different. But even colleges don't teach any more than basic simplistic "free market" theory without even pointing out that all important markets are not free and do not have an infinite number of buyers and sellers will equal access to information and resources. It's like teaching no Physics beyond frictionless statics.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
People want agency
"People don't like to feel like beggars". They don't want to be told to buy private insurance and then fined when they can't afford it. They want to be able to afford it themselves.
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
@Hawkfish I agree. But they
I agree. But they want to feel they paid for it. With money or with their labor or with their taxes.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
@The Voice In the Wilderness Get rid of FICA and
Get rid of FICA and just have the government fund SS directly, since taxes don't fund the currency issuer anyway. Why pretend otherwise?
And why are we taxing labor and industry, rather than unearned incomes?
@katie Because that's where
Because that's where the money is? Supposedly my SS is "unearned income"
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
LaFem, sorry about your flu!
What you are describing in your essay is the absence of a fight. I see almost no antagonism between the elected officials of the duopoly.
The hard turn to the right will have no speed bumps.
I hear more intelligent and principled political disagreements on my front porch than on c-span.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal @on the cusp @on the cusp In
In other words the usual and connivance.
Sad sight yesterday
Obama gave one final speech, on the tarmac just before getting into a plane to go on vacation. This was, of course, just after Trump's inaugural address stating that the establishment has been glutting itself at the people's expense. Obama tried some pushback, stating "Everything we did, we did for you." At that point, the TV station I was watching cut away to something else.
That will be my last memory of Obama's presidency. His feeble "Everything we did, we did for you."
To us, is more like it!
And LaFem, you are correct I think in saying that the elites enjoy Socialism while those of us lower-scale get the meanest capitalism. A huge disconnect for the 99%, maybe now with Trump more will grok that.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
When you have a hammer,
When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Lefties tend to be smart, intellectual people invested in ideas and discussion. Their response to things is to come up with policies. That's fine, until you no longer have a political system that responds to people's ideas fairly, whose purpose is to frustrate good policy rather than to discover and implement it.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal I agree that this is an
I agree that this is an enormous obstacle. Maybe one that can no longer be overcome, a real possibility in my mind. It could be the coup is complete and not many will choose to come up against modern weaponry. I know it scares the shit out of me, and I'm not easily frightened.
It seems to me that things will get better only once enough realize that the lies told to keep them in line fall apart.
And since most folks just try hard to earn a living while not bankrupting their country, they need to understand that money is created so is not the issue. It's the power structures that are, including the lie that tells them they might bankrupt the country if they ask for a better life.
Or the lie that their children will have to pay back the public debt due to their parents having asked for too much from the government.
I really don't think we should underestimate the power of these two lies.
There is no simple answer
to issues that a new left party can sell to the public. The Republicans have run the deck by creating backlashes against left-leaning solutions, like Single Payer. The absurdity is that the right has no answers, just more of the same. It will probably take a considerable restructuring of our society and economy to fix all of out problems. Chris Hedges does a good job of describing the total quandary. He's very depressing, but realistic:
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_KHr6_MrWE]
When Trump screws up, the Democrats will be there panting like rabid dogs ready to take power, and once again make sure that nothing significant happens. We have to get out of this cycle, and perhaps only a catastrophe will do it, and Trump may improve this possibility.
How exactly is he giving power back to the people, unless "the people" means the top .01%? Nice trick, but that's a time worn slight of hand that the Right loves to pull. Still, better than Hillary the Terrible, who would sign the TPP and make war, war and more war, and still give in to the oligarchs.
Capitalism has always been the rule of the people by the oligarchs. You only have two choices, eliminate them or restrict their power.
@The Wizard OK, well, I guess we all
OK, well, I guess we all want to talk about looking for the magic idea that will get the people--uninformed and uneducated and vulnerable to Clinton/Bush/duopoly talking points like deficit hawkery--on our side.
In a related note, I'm really glad to be back in the early 90s. I had this horrible dream that the 21st century had arrived, and it was awful. There were at least two threats to all life on earth that the people in power refused to deal with, and worse, they successfully obstructed everyone else from dealing with them too, insisting that the car we were all in continue at top speed toward the edge of a cliff, in a sort of genocidal greed.
Man, I'm glad that was a dream.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
And this is what that got
And this is what that got them:
Wow, Hillary. Way to move the populace, you deficit hawk!
That one is from Omaha, by the way. Not exactly a bastion of leftie progressivism or tax-and-spend. I wonder how Sanders did in Nebraska?
http://journalstar.com/news/state-and-regional/federal-politics/crowd-li...
http://www.fox23.com/news/politics/sanders-wins-nebraska-democratic-pres...
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
We already know our ideas are popular
Livable wages, medicare for all, protect the environment, civil rights, peace...people love our shit. The problem is we don't have representatives to make them happen.
People didn't trust Hillary - and rightfully so. Bernie got deep-sixed by The Party Unless or until we establish a new party, we will never get political action. The Democrats are a dead end.
Here is the party I support We need a national party that builds on the momentum of local and state parties. Putting all your faith in part timer like Jill Stein and the structure-less Green Party won't do it.
Yea, Katie! MMT all the way!
But really, "government funded health care" and college tuition are not 'ideas', they are policies or at best 'issues'. The problem with the Dems over the past decades, as I see it, is that they do not have a vision and a narrative that explains to ordinary Americans how all this stuff fits together in a way that is recognizable and understandable from their own generally isolated and ill-informed perspective (as a farmer, as a line worker, as a service sector employee, as a software engineer).
The Republicans do, and they have been consistent in their message since 1980 (when the Goldwater radicals took decisive control over the Party apparatus) - and so they have captured and defined the discursive framework within which all conversations about particular policies occur. "Government is the problem", "we can't afford it", "people on welfare are just lazy", "social spending is a form of theft from hard-working Americans", "we need a strong military to protect us". These are consistent memes of political discourse in the US, which one hears not only in the media but in any barroom conversation about matters of public interest - and all of them are grounded in the crass libertarian ideology set forth very clearly in works like Goldwater's (really Brent Bozell's) The Conscience of a Conservative.
The Democrats USED to have that kind of ideological clarity. It was born of the Populists and embraced by Progressives in both major parties in the early years of the 20th century. It was a vision articulated around the major theme that the concentration of wealth and private power constituted a threat to democracy, and that it was the obligation of the government to ameliorate that threat wherever the political liberty or economic security of ordinary Americans was placed in jeopardy. It was a vision that made sense to ordinary people; and it was so popular that presidential candidates from both parties had to shape their politics around it (just as they now must shape their politics around neoliberal assumptions). But the Dems abandoned this in the era of the Cold War, when class arguments became outré.
Maybe we need to go back to the future.
@solublefish Agree.
Agree.
In my opinion, we need to say things like: Per The Constitution, the federal government issue our currency, it should do so to fund the general welfare. Banks are there to fund the markets.
Sure, it's two sentences and won't fit on a bumper sticker, but it needs to be repeated fare and wide. Always.
But I do
I have been doing this for years. It is very easy, one-on-one to explain, but the problem is these same people actually listen to the "classical" bullshit and it sounds more real than Reality. The general trend (for the "set in their ways crowd") is to say, "yea, but · · ·". And fall back on the simple cartoon version of Reality that is oh so comfortable.
@solublefish I should say here that I
I should say here that I'm a strong advocate of Ellen Brown's ideas, so as policy goes, I'm all for the direction Katie's going.
I just don't think that policy is our problem. Nor is the style of our messaging.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
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